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Man kicked off flight due to lapel button

Discussion in 'Legal' started by PenHolder, Jul 20, 2003.

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  1. PenHolder

    PenHolder Member

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    http://www.politechbot.com/p-04973.html

    This is an account of a guy who was recently booted off of a flight for wearing a lapel button that said, "Suspected Terrorist". While we've seen that possessing some books can get you ejected from a flight (the story of Hayduke Lives!: http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml), it looks like two printed words are enough now.

    So, are we supposed to start leaving the gun rags at home too? :mad:

    Excerpts from the story:

    Whether I agree with this guy (John Gilmore) or not, it's nice to see someone actually willing to put forth the time and expense to stand up for what he believes in, versus meekly knuckling under in the name of convenience.

    I'm a big fan of private property rights, and I understand that British Airways owns the aircraft. However, at least in the case of domestic airlines, when we have airlines designated as "common carriers", relying on a publically-funded airport system, propped up by public bailout dollars, and largely administered by public entities (FAA / TSA / insert acronym here), just how "private" should that property be?

    -PH
     
  2. Zedicus

    Zedicus Member

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    Hence why I never Fly with British Airways, they like to do things like this over various petty things.:cuss:
     
  3. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    What if it was a tattoo?
     
  4. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    He should have worn a rag tied around his head ... then they would have left him alone.
     
  5. LostOneToo

    LostOneToo Member

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    Ya just gotta love institutional ignorance and stupidity. I cannot believe how stupid the airlines have gotten since 9-11. I read one article where they confiscated a Glock lapel pin from an old man because it was a "gun" and another where they confiscated the toy M16 from a GI Joe doll that a grandmother was taking back to her grandson in England!!!

    The airlines deserve to lose money and go under when they cannot operate with any better sense than some of them currently display.:cuss:
     
  6. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    [Devil's Advocate]
    One might argue for the airline that its not required of them that anyone with a political statement, no matter how loud or subtle, be given a soapbox by the company.
    [/Devil's Advocate]

    If I owned a company that provided a service, I wouldnt care if someone had a bumper sticker on their butt saying "Gay Nazi for Christ", especially if they had already paid me an exhorbatant sum of money for my service.

    I want to know where I can get a lapel pin like that. I would buy in bulk and sell on campus.:D
     
  7. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    "Bend over!"

    "How far?"


    Just keep flying and hand over the cash. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Fire Mineta!
     
  9. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    The airlines cannot go broke fast enough. Now if the filthy scum in Congress would stop giving those feckless clowns my money, they would go bankrupt faster.
     
  10. Ian

    Ian Member

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    The airlines, through captains or whomever they give dicision-making authority to, should have the right to kick someone off a plane for any reason they like. It's their airplane; they can determine who may or may not board it.

    That said, I hope the slimeballs go out of business posthaste for such egregious stupidity. Sadly, Bush decided to give them piles of our money to prevent that from happening.
     
  11. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Brought to you by the same people who wanted to confiscate Gen. Joe Foss' Medal of Honor.
     
  12. Malone LaVeigh

    Malone LaVeigh Member

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    Washed out of Four-dollar Bayou. Now I'm... somewh
    ...and his boss...
     
  13. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Betcha the Supremes wouldn't say the button is illegal. Neither incites nor presents a clear and present danger to public safety. What's he going to do, start a "sing-a-long" of '60s surfer songs on board? Kumbaya! Born Free!
     
  14. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    Sounds like all of you guys would prefer to have government owned and operated air travel. Yeah, thats the solution. its a private company they can kick a person off for whatever reason they choose as far as im concerned. If im running a buisiness and someone is causing a disruption of any kind or making me, my staff or, my customers uncomfortable then its my right to ask them to leave. Private industry works both ways.
     
  15. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

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    The key words here are "British Airways". A British aircraft is sovereign territory of the country of origin just like a passenger ship is; and the captain of that aircraft is the final arbiter of what occurs on his craft.

    Since the craft was British, and the Brits have limited rights compared to our own, that limitation translates to all sovereign craft as well.

    If you don't want to be treated like a subject of the Crown, don't fly on the Crown's aircraft.
     
  16. PileDriver

    PileDriver Member

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    private industry that depends on taxpayer guaranteed borrowed funds ain't exactly private.


    once the sheep in this country decide they won't fly until they can carry their weapons on board for defense, this nonsense will continue to happen. i for one will never fly for any reason until i can carry on board. if that means i never step foot on a commercial jet, so be it. a private license is pretty much affordable now.
     
  17. DrPsycho

    DrPsycho Member

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    Anyone know of a non-flight alternative to get between Australia and the United States in say, under a week?

    Unfortunately some of us have no alternatives but to fly - and be subjected to all this b/s and inconvenience for the sake of "security".
     
  18. PileDriver

    PileDriver Member

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    chartering
     
  19. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    somebody makes a heck of a lot more money than i do.
     
  20. HBK

    HBK member

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    All the security I need is my Walther P-99....my Glock 29 if things are extreme. I won't fly until I can carry onboard. (I miht have to break the rule ot see my family at Christmas though:( )
     
  21. ojibweindian

    ojibweindian Member

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    I transfered to a different position at my company because of my loathing of flying. My previous job had me traveling on occasion; now I don't have to put up with being unarmed when I travel.
     
  22. AZLibertarian

    AZLibertarian Member

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    OK, since I've already identified myself in another thread as a captain at a major national airline, let me jump in here...

    I've got lots to agree with here. The airplane is the private property of the corporation. Many bars, restaurants, etc. have dress and behavior codes. As I see it, access to the airplane isn't much different. Behave in a way that doesn't upset the other patrons, and you'll be welcome all day. Step out of line, and you'll be asked to leave.

    The money the government is sending to the airlines is troublesome. Some companies are just barely treading water with a business model that is out-dated. IMO, they're using the money from the government, in the guise of refunding losses related to national security, to keep themselves afloat. A "fair" solution would include the need for some companies to dissolve. But that would force politicians to decide that workers in their communities would lose their jobs--which, of course, they are never going to support. The airlines' basic problem with the government is that we're neither regulated nor unregulated...we're semi-regulated. Which means that nearly everything the FAA/TSA/DOT does both helps and hurts us.

    If it were up to me, the TSA and all the foolishness about screening would go away tomorrow. The vast majority of Americans are good people, and if we got rid of all the nanny-state approaches to our lives, we'd all be much better off. Relating this to airport security, IMO, if a citizen can legally carry a weapon (i.e. not a felon), he ought to be able to, as long as he recognizes and accepts the consequences for his actions with that weapon. However, realistically, this isn't going to happen, as much as most of us here want it to. The best you're going to see is an armed pilot. The passengers are going to have to trust the pilot with his gun, in the same way they trust him with the controls of the plane. For the best information on armed pilots see http://www.secure-skies.org. The information from the TSA and the largest pilots union, ALPA, is so corrupted with their own political agendas as to be worthless.
     
  23. org

    org Member

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    I'm another airline pilot and agree with AZlibertarian. The problem with the payments to airlines is the same as payments to farmers. Both are semi regulated, and are paying for the mistakes of government regulators. When Washington bans the same of farm commodities to (previously) established customers, the cost must be mitigated or pretty soon we won't have an agricultural industry (or food) in this country. It's the same with the airlines. The ridiculous harassment we go through to get on an airplane has soured anyone who flies regularly, and those people have been the backbone of the airline industry. Many of them have found alternatives to flying, costing the airlines billions. The airlines have little or no control over the policies of TSA, most of which are fluff with little substance anyway.

    Having said that, some of the airlines used and are using 9/11 as an excuse for the effects of abysmal management going back years. The money made by these airlines in the boom years was in spite of, not because of, the leadership of their management. Now that the boom is over, they're paying the price.

    Allowing the airline industry to collapse, as some seem to advocate, would devastate the economy and the lives of millions of US citizens. It's going to be a tough balancing act, and I'm not sure our leadership in Washington is up for it, since they have little time for anything but sniping at each other or defending against the sniping.
     
  24. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Pissing off your customers is not a particularly good way to run a business ...
     
  25. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    reflect on other incidents involving airline passengers. a nursing mother forced to prove her bottled milk was truly bottled breast milk.
    a WWII Veteran told his Medal of Honor was a potential 'weapon' and he would have to throw it away in order to board the plane.
    a child told his toy plastic rifle that came with his gi joe figure was 'verboten' because it 'resembled a weapon'.
    inert rounds on keychains refused because they 'looked like real ammo'.

    doesnt this call to mind the "assault weapon" ban of '94, in which weapons were judged solely on outward appearance? who is really scared of how things look? rational sane people? how much more do we have to bend backwards in order to accomodate those who are frightened by mere objects?
     
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