Man shoots three kids attempting to rob him

[Jeff White]

This is an on topic story. A situation that an armed citizen could actually find himself in:

Texas boys who pulled guns on man are shot before they can rob him

The would-be victim told police that the boys had pistols, but he was also armed - and fired at them outside of his Houston apartment complex.

mol.im

This is surely going to be a very emotionally charged case.

 

[Dunross]

If they're pointing a gun at you it doesn't matter how old they are.

 

[Jeff White]

If they're pointing a gun at you it doesn't matter how old they are.

That's true. However in the media environment we live in now cold, rational judgement isn't a factor.

Then there is something that seldom makes it into these conversations, but should; living with breaking one of societies biggest taboos, harming a child. Let me assure you that legally and morally justified isn't much comfort if you are forced to take the life of a child.

 

[.38 Special]

I try to bear in mind that shooting someone - no matter how justified - can easily wreck my life and the lives of those who depend upon me. This is a good reminder, in a sea of good reminders. The gun is the very last option, when there are no others.

 

[W.E.G.]

I hope they give him a medal.

 

[shafter]

In a recent Shawn Ryan episode with former gang unit cop Blake Cook, Blake describes some of the most dangerous gang members as being juveniles.

That's a really difficult situation to be in because a kid can pull a trigger same as an adult and may have even less inhibition of consequences; but shooting a kid is a nightmare scenario for anyone.

 

[Anchorite]

Outside his home? One youngster shot multiple times? Those optics are bad no matter how it plays out in the court of public opinion and the grand jury. I wonder if the kids got off any shots - who shot first….was this a running gun battle, parties all know one another …. a lot to sort out

 

[Double_J]

I read somewhere many years ago that child soldiers were preferred as they can and will fight with no regard to their own safety. They will not hesitate to pull the trigger on you or anyone else they consider a threat. This carried over into a study about inner city gangs, the youth are far more likely to start shooting "just because."

Unfortunately our mainstream media will play this out as crazy adult shoots "innocent kids playing around."

 

[Carl N. Brown]

ABC13 KTRK (Harris County, Texas) spoke with girlfriend of shooter. She and her boyfriend were returning from a Christmas party. She had fallen asleep. The boyfriend opened the car door to carry her inside. Four armed boys surrounded them. At first the boyfriend thought they were joking, the girlfriend said. ABC13 gave the ages of the three shot as 12 to 15. Ages vary with news sources.

The boyfriend stayed at the scene and spoke with police. As of Dec 26 10:55PM the shooter had not been charged or detained. Added: "multiple" weapons were recovered at the scene.

Any one remember 14 Mar 2024 three children (11, 12, 13) were arrested for robbing a Houston Wells Fargo bank?

Given the fact that adult criminals do give young kids guns to do robberies for them or to act as couriers transporting drugs or money for the adult criminals, the possibility of encountering armed minors, even preteens, requires some serious evaluation of proper responses.

 

[JohnKSa]

The article mentions that investigators are trying to determine if the weapons used by the kids are real or BB guns. While that will be a point of interest, it should not factor into the determination of the justification for the man's actions unless a reasonable person, in the moment, would have been able to determine or would have reasonably believed that the weapons were all fake.

 

[lemaymiami]

If a kid pointing a gun your way doesn't scare you spit-less - you're just not paying attention... One of the low points in any law enforcement career is encountering armed juveniles - who are totally ignorant about the weapons they have - and are as likely to shoot someone accidentally as on purpose... That said, being involved in any kind of shooting is bad business -if your opponent is a kid - that's a nightmare as far as I'm concerned... Hope the robbery victim comes out okay.

 

[pbearperry135]

Nice job parents. Sadly it is not going to get any better. I hope the adult shooter fares well over this.

 

[GEM]

I once read from an officer that the scariest thing he encountered was an 8 year old girl rushing at him, close up with a butcher knife. What to do? Another friend, a Fed, said - simply shoot till the attacker stopped, no matter what.

I might suggest, from left field, that the childrens' parents (if they have such) might be looked at for why the kids were out and had weapons or replicas. I don't find it acceptable that people have children that they cannot control. I realize this is difficult but I see too many kids getting in trouble at parties at Midnight, etc. However, our society has let families fall apart - lecture on economics, jobs, blah, blah - I'll skip it.

The shooter should avoid media and seek counseling, even if he thinks it is not necessary.

Talking to a sergeant on a research project, he told me that clearing a house, he had a young teenager dive behind his bed and then come up holding something. Almost shot him - but it was a phone. Still haunts him that he almost shot.

 

[shafter]

For me at least, I'm going to deal with a child with a knife differently than with a gun, especially an 8 year old.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

This is an on topic story. A situation that an armed citizen could actually find himself in:

Texas boys who pulled guns on man are shot before they can rob him

The would-be victim told police that the boys had pistols, but he was also armed - and fired at them outside of his Houston apartment complex.

mol.im

This is surely going to be a very emotionally charged case.

I missed it in your story, but found it in another that the man and his significant other were both the intended victims, not just the man. https://www.yahoo.com/news/3-young-...HdJEjiFqra5L5V97ka6q0l3gsCJ5t9NHnQ5TmOk25PlqA

A woman told ABC13 that she had fallen asleep on the drive home, and her boyfriend opened the vehicle door to carry her inside when several armed boys surrounded them in a robbery attempt on Christmas night.

So there was at least one other witness, so not the victim's words against the robber's.

-----------------------------

Outside his home? One youngster shot multiple times? Those optics are bad no matter how it plays out in the court of public opinion and the grand jury. I wonder if the kids got off any shots - who shot first….was this a running gun battle, parties all know one another …. a lot to sort out

It does sound bad....for the youth. You are correct. A bunch of armed boys trying to rob a man and his girlfriend after at night. They ambushed him at his parking spot, almost like they were waiting on a victim. Yeah, sounds, pretty bad for the youth.

Doesn't really matter who shot, first, if they were trying to rob him and it was after dark as well. Does not matter if they knew each other.

Let's see, the man and his girlfriend were the victims of attempted robbery by 4 armed youth. He shot 3. Cops find wounded youth and weapons at crime scene and then 2 more wound youths and a 4th, uninjured youth, show back up to the crime scene and are summary taken into custody. So far, nothing reported sounds like bad optics for the would-be victim except for the bleeding hearts worried about the youth. As for the grand jury, not likely to be a problem in Texas if the events are as described so far.

That's true. However in the media environment we live in now cold, rational judgement isn't a factor.

So far, the media seems to be doing just fine. Many of the outlets aren't even calling robbery and victims (man and girlfriend) to be "alleged."

Now, if we learn that the would-be victim did stuff like Ersland in 2009, or if all the guns at the crime scene were planted by the victim, then there could be trouble, but so far, no such information like that has come forward.

And if we are worried about the poor tykes, youth gangs are nothing new. Here is where a group of 3, 11-16, robbed a bank in Houston earlier this year (Carl mentioned above, but here is a link).

3 children dubbed the 'Little Rascals' accused of robbing Houston bank

The juveniles, ages 11, 12 and 16, were caught on camera robbing a Wells Fargo bank March 14, the FBI said.

www.nbcnews.com

Of course, we are now left with 4 youths who will have some new street cred after this is over, especially 3 of them. They will have more after juvie. What will be interesting is how this affects their lives. Will they continue in a life a crime?

 

[shafter]

Of course, we are now left with 4 youths who will have some new street cred after this is over, especially 3 of them. They will have more after juvie. What will be interesting is how this affects their lives. Will they continue in a life a crime?

Its possible street cred was their motivation. I've seen people who have been in gangs since their juvenile years and many have bullet or knife scars on them. Many live short lives.

 

[Jeff White]

Years ago I came within a fraction of a second from shooting a 14 year old gang banger. It was a little after 4 pm and I was taking the officer I relieved home. Dispatch called with a report of suspicious people at Pizza Hut which was out by the interstate. The complainant stated that 4 teenagers came in and ordered 1 personal pan pizza and a pitcher of Pepsi. He thought that was suspicious and looked out at their car and said it had a Michigan plate on the front and a Wisconsin plate on the back. I acknowledged the call and said I'd head out there when I dropped the day shift officer at home. I hadn't driven a block farther when the call came; "Units I just received a 911 call from Pizza Hut the juvenile subjects are breaking into the coin boxes in the arcade in the restaurant." We headed directly out there and beat the other car to the scene. Just as we pulled up the juveniles came running around the corner of the building having exited through the fire exit in the arcade. They saw me and stopped, the closest one went into his coat right for his waistband. I was starting my trigger pull when his empty hand came out of his coat. We were maybe 10 feet apart. We later found out that they were members of a Laotian street gang from LaCrosse, WI and were on a gang initiation where they delivered drugs to a an affiliated gang in Atlanta and were to return with the money. They were given no expense money and they had been doing drive offs at gas stations and petty robberies both directions between LaCrosse and Atlanta. The teenager I almost shot was reaching for a hammer in his waistband. The gang officer in LaCrosse provided the information on the gang initiation. There was $1200 cash in an envelope hidden in a pile of dirty laundry in the car along with photographs of them flashing gang sign. I know that he would have shot me if he had a gun and beat me to the draw. That isn't a lot of comfort when I think about how close he came to losing his life that afternoon.

 

[armoredman]

Some 13 year old kids are bigger than some 20 year old adults. As for whether or not the weapons presented were BB guns, which Supreme Court Justice said, "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife"?

 

[BreechFace]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Sad the kids paid the ultimate price for their actions. Parents should be ashamed of how they turned out, hopefully they experience some shame for costing their kids their lives.

Feel bad for the victim who was defending himself and his girlfriend, no matter how you cut it he has to live with the results.

Obviously, the above is based on the information I’ve seen that is still pending.

 

[Boom Vang]

A sad case all around. Victim was apparently legitimately defending himself. The juvenile delinquents were failed by their parents, and the perverted norms of the culture they were born into. Along with the various media that glorify and de-humanize violence.

Brain-washed, indoctrinated and manipulated youth can be cold-hearted killers. They have not lived long enough to appreciate human life. Hitler Youth, school shooters and gang bangers are testaments to this.

 

[Kleanbore]

Dr. William Aprill's writings told us a lot about the environment in which such things occur.

 

[lemaymiami]

Item #1... Yes the victim should seek counselling -anyone involved a shooting should (in my one shooting it was never offered and I didn't go looking for any..). I should have... It took a while to get my head back on straight...

Item #2... All you have to do to learn about just how bad some "parenting" can be... is look at the videos that the Humane Society posts about how some folks abuse their animals. I've been to houses where the kids living there - aren't treated any better... I can remember, on the midnight shift in one particular neighborhood where there were at least one or two places where you could see young kids (with a toddler or two in addition...) playing in the dirt in front of a house or two - at 3Am... There really are neighborhoods where bigger kids learn early on to slap someone smaller and weaker - to take a piece of candy or a cold drink from them... Fast forward to when they become teenagers and one of my grandkids might run into one... Very glad I'm long out of that world - a world most folks never see, thank heavens... No kid in that world has much of a chance of growing up straight and tall...

 

[dh1633pm]

I remember a call on a sat phone from Afganland. My son, a Marine said “If I killed someone, am I going to hell”. I can only imagine how one might feel afterwards.

 

[redneck2]

remember a call on a sat phone from Afganland. My son, a Marine said “If I killed someone, am I going to hell”.

I assume his response was from a Christian religious standpoint. The correct translation of Exodus 20 is “ thou shall not murder”, that is lie in wait and take an innocent life. Remember, the Israelites killed a LOT of people after Mt Sinai

 

[dh1633pm]

I didn’t want to get into justification, only to talk about the mental aspects of shooting someone. I remember a friend named Sal I knew in Albuquerque. He was a retired NYC Policeman who shot a bank robber. Didn’t kill him, but he has to testify. The man was paralyzed. He justified it, but it still bothered him.