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Mandatory BG checks on ALL sales lead to registration of all guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by abajaj11, Jan 10, 2013.

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  1. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    They can call us what they want. The point is...how do you disarm 100 million people without a shot being fired? One baby step at a time. One "compromise" at a time.
    Get public opinion ginned up.
    :)
    PS if the majority decided that free speech was not a good idea, would that take away our natural right to self-expression? Majority does not decide the BIll of Rights.....the Bill of Rights is not up for vote....so we should not care what the majority says....but of course we need to win them over through education of our kids....ourselves 'cos the schools are brainwashing them as quickly as possible.
     
  2. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    As some kind of universal background check law clears the senate Judiciary committee, it is worth remembering, IMHO, WHY we are all so opposed to one. Please consider calling not just our senators, but also folks like Max Baucus, etc. who may be on the fence on this one.
    To get phone numbers, please us this link:
    https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
    :)
     
  3. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    As the UBC debate heats up, fueled by POTUS, it seems appropriate to remind folks why UBCs are just a way to registration. UBCs IMHO are the holy grail for the anti 2As.

    How will they ever enforce Universal background checks if they do not know that a sale even took place? To know that a sale took place, they need to know WHO owns WHAT already.Knowing that means creating a federal level registry of who owns what.

    Gun registration has always led to confiscation. How do you disarm 100 million people with guns, peacefully? You do it one segment at a time, afer knowing who owns what and then slowly taking away the rights of one segment at a time. Within 3 years or so, the population is effectively disarmed.
    CALL your national Senators to tell them NOT to support UBCs. Please. YOu can get their contact info at:
    https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
     
  4. pillage

    pillage Member

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    The so called Universal Background Check can easily be abused. Right now the background check can only be accessed by FFL holders and law enforcement. If anyone can call to do a check, I can see how it could be abused.

    For example, a gun owner is going through an ugly divorce that involves children, and resides in a state that isn't firearm friendly. The soon to be spouse wants to muddy the waters in the court's eyes so they make 100 background checks on their soon to be ex in a short period of time. They would have the personal information on the spouse to make this look convincing.

    This causes flags to be raised with local law enforcement and they decide to go check on this new extremist, as his or her kids might be in jeopardy . The spouse's lawyer brings it up in court, that the soon to be ex has been investigated recently by law enforcement. You will be looked at as guilty until until you can prove yourself otherwise.

    As it stands an FFL would not do this, as this kind of shenangain would put their business in trouble. Chances are LEO wouldn't do it either, but just allowing anyone else into the system raises many questions. How about calling on someone who you only sort of know just to go data fishing?
     
  5. Hit_Factor

    Hit_Factor Member

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    FFL holders don't get any details when they run a check. The result is basically pass (proceed) or fail (deny). Their access to information in the database should not be compared to the access of LEO.
     
  6. limpingbear

    limpingbear Member

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    After doing a bit of light reading....It appears that even if the UBC is passed there can be no implementation of a federal gun registry. Its contained in FOPA as follows...

    "No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation"

    So if I'm reading it right, the Feds would have to repeal FOPA to implement a federal registry...which would mean revisiting the GCA 86, which is probably something they don't want to do at this time.
    I still expect them to try though....
     
  7. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    ^^^Right. What they want to do now with UBC is make sure records are being kept of all transfers which will happen if all must go through an FFL. At a later date, when they can point to the "registration loophole", they will seek to repeal FOPA and create a registry from the records (as well as requiring registration of all guns that have not been transferred via FFL).
     
  8. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    Universal Background Checks simply accomplish what the anti gun crowd has wanted to do for a long time, which is make it difficult to buy a gun that can't be easily traced back to you and confiscated.

    The only thing I see coming from the UBC if they become law is sting operations against gun owners much like the police does now against the war on drugs. Ignorant people will be targeted and undercover officers will offer to buy guns from them under the radar. If they agree they'll be arrested and charged with attempting to sell a firearm illegally.
     
  9. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    There are all sorts of horror stories out there about what they will do if it passes. But first it has to pass and like Obamacare, they have to pass it before we can know what it in it.

    So the best thing to do is not worry about what might happen IF, and work now to see that IF doesn't happen. .
     
  10. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    I just read THIS article that the AP put out, the very last sentence is the best idea I have heard of in this entire debate. It would ALMOST certainly prevent any kind of real registration.



    the last sentence is
    I personally sell very few guns, but if I were to sell one it would have to be to a CCP holder, thus keeping the Gov. out of the sale while being legal, and I would of course have mine so no BGC for me. Looks like that is enough to make it almost impossible to create a "real" registry.

    It would also seriously increase the people who have CCP's simply to avoid the BGC's and probably save money. :D
     
  11. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    ^ what .gov giveth .gov can taketh away, unless of course we fight for our rights
     
  12. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    OK. Just as soon as he recognizes the 2nd Amendment is a carry permit Which pretty much exempts everyone.
     
  13. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Member

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    Don't be holding your breath on that one.
    :cuss:

    Schumer has a "plan" and so does Feinstein, and the end result is unilateral citizen disarmament, despite the 2A.
     
  14. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    In 2-3-4
    Out 2-3-4
    Repeat as necessary.
     
  15. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    UBC is not their goal: registration is their goal.
    If they were serious about background checks, they would pursue the existing NICs checks that fail....they don't. Check this out:

    http://www.newsmax.com/JohnLott/bradylaw-gunownership/2011/06/14/id/399967

    NICs right now are useless as the above link shows.
    Why would they want to expand them? Because they really want to prevent firearm violence? No, it is to create a registry.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  16. Deer_Freak

    Deer_Freak Member.

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    I am for enforcing the laws on the books. When the laws on the books are enforced I can get on board for further regulation. Anything less is just punishing the honest, law abiding gun owner. The law is supposed to punish criminals, not honest hard working people.

    The only way to enforce a UBC is to create a registration of guns. Registration of weapons will lead to confiscation.
     
  17. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    If these background checks (that lead to registration, which is their real goal) are passed, I am turning third party. It will be the end of the republican party in my mind.
    If these moderate republicans want to commit political suicide, let them.

    More conservative folks like Jim Bridenstine or Rand Paul need to form a third party if they want my vote in the future.
    If gun control passes, I AM NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR ANYONE RUNNING UNDER THE TICKET OF THE PARTY THAT ALLOWED OUR GUNS TO BE TAKEN AWAY.
    I am planning to call my 2 senators and congressman, as well as Spkr Boehner in the house, and tell their aides this.
    Please consider doing something along those lines as well. Perhaps if these idiots are faced with the demise of their precious party, they may see sense.

    For Congressman: http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
    For Senators: https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
    :)
     
  18. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    If we get registration I doubt your 3rd party vote will be counted.
     
  19. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    Yes, you may be right. All i can do is my little bit. Hopefully if enough pull together it will make an impact.

    BTW, interesting article on how registration of firearms was used on Jews by Nazis, as a prelude to assaulting them.

    http://www.independent.org/pdf/research_articles/2009-03-02-halbrook.pdf

    :)
     
  20. msb45

    msb45 Member

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    Why acknowledge the false argument of manage the object, not hold people accountable.

    On a tour at Williamsburg I saw an old but good idea. If found guilty of a crime you could ask for clemency and get your hand branded. They walked out free that day. If they committed another crime they were hung, no questions asked.

    Dead people can't buy guns. Brand the bad guys, not the good.
     
  21. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

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    The battle is not over....please consider calling your senators to thank them. They will get calls from Bloomberg fueled bots, we need to counter that by showing our appreciation !
    also, please consider contributing to the NRA and GOA, maybe the cost of a box of ammo each? IMHO, it's WORTH IT!
    :)
     
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