Marlin 25N Need bolt

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by ExAgoradzo, Jun 19, 2014.

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  1. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    Bolt-action 22lr rifle discontinued by Marlin.

    I have searched high and low for a bolt for this gun: Brownells, Midway, Numrich, Ebay, Gunbroker.

    Anyone got any other ideas?

    My step-dad lost the bolt, it belongs to my brother. I'd love to fix it up for him and give it back to him whole...

    Thanks,
    Greg
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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  3. Jackal

    Jackal Member

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    Call Marlin. Makes sense to contact the folks that made it.:)
     
  4. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    Not for sure, but I believe that the Marlin 925 was a reincarnated 25N, but a bolt for that too will likely be hard to find.


    NCsmitty
     
  5. easy

    easy Member

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  6. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    Thanks RC! They're shipping it today!

    FWIW: I had already called Marlin, no go.

    Now, she said something about 'fitting' it to this gun: I'm a little concerned about what that might mean! We'll see.

    Thanks again,
    Greg
     
  7. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    She is most likely referring to the correct headspacing, the distance between the bolt face and front wall of the breech. At the factory, the headspacing is set to each receiver. If you look at your new bolt, you will see a few numbers hand-scribed somewhere on the bolt, these correlate with the last few of the serial on the gun it was originally fitted to.

    If I recall correctly, generally, one would want a .22 rimfire headspaced somewhere from .043-.051. Definitely no more than .051 though.

    Brownell's distributes a set of "Go No-Go" Gauges for .22LR, and published a guide on how to use them. The guide recommends disassembling the bolt and removing the firing pin and extractor. Don't take my word as gospel, but I strongly recommend against disassembling a Marlin bolt. You will destroy your fingers....and personality...trying to get it back together.

    The tools: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/headspace-gauges/go-no-go-gauge-sets-prod26876.aspx

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12555/GunTechdetail/Headspace-Gauges-And-How-To-Use-Them-Part-I

    Last of all, and this is TERRIBLE information to provide you, and I strongly recommend you headspace the bolt before using it, but I know from personal experience that between two Marlins, there was no difference in closing force or firing operation when a friend and I swapped bolts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  8. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    Wow Marlin-Rimfire, that reading was an education...
    I appreciate your post because I couldn't imagine that their machining would make the cylinder of the bolt so wildly inconsistent that it wouldn't work in two guns of the same model. But if I understood correctly, the point is that the chamber when closed may be too short or two long and create either a chamber that won't close or create an unsafe situation because of the gasses involved in the firing of the cartridge.

    Thanks again!
    Greg
     
  9. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    My pleasure. I love these little guns and I think it's cool that you're getting one working again.

    I agree with your thoughts that it generally should be consistent enough to not be an issue. If you take a box of bulk .22 ammo and measure rim thickness on every round, you could in all possibility see a greater variance between those figures than you would between bolts from the same production lot. However, on the off chance you get a wild mismatch, it could be very dangerous to have the powder vent out of the receiver towards your face. Since you have no idea when the bolt was made versus when your receiver was made, I would personally check the headspacing before shooting it.

    If you understandably don't want to dish out 60 dollars for the gauge set, I would at the very least mount the gun on something and fire it remotely a few times, especially since it isn't your own rifle.

    Another consideration is relative position of the firing pin. If the headspacing is too short on the bolt, your firing pin will really wallop against the breech face in a dry fire, and if it's too long, you may get inconsistent ignition.

    Though, all that said, I am very curious how a .22 would behave with too little headspacing. I don't know if rimfire primers need the sharp impulse of a firing pin, or simply crushing the rim with the bolt would cause ignition.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Crushing a rim slightly while closing the bolt normally should not set it off.

    Tying it down and pulling the trigger with a string from 20 feet away is not necessary either with a .22 RF.
    A blown case from a .22 RF will not blow your face off.
    You have probably been hurt worse with fire-crackers as a kid!

    Wear safety glasses, and
    Point the receiver opening away from your face and shoot a few rounds of HV LR ammo.

    If you get no blown rims or gas leakage?
    And it cocks and fires normally?

    Choot'm Lizabet!
    Choot'm!

    rc
     
  11. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    Braver than I. My face is already ugly enough without any burns.

    If I were fixing a rifle for my brother, I'd try to do things by the book. Especially since he's a lawyer. :eek:
     
  12. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    I very much appreciate you both. Thanks guys: really.

    My step-dad let the gun get a little rusty: that's the next thing for me to tackle (just cosmetic, really no big deal). But I had to clean it up pretty good and $60 for the bolt to be sent to me isn't the cheapest thing in the world. But my dad isn't in the best of health any more and I think now that my brother isn't on board ship anymore, this summer might be a good time to give it to him.

    I was thinking (I ALWAYS wear glasses and ears when I shoot) of 'shooting from the hip' a few times. Then bringing it upwards to test several rounds. I have a friend's house where shooting 22s all day long isn't a prob (except I can't find ammo around here ;) ).

    Anyways, like I said, if I have probs, I'll take it to a smith and let him work on it (if it isn't too much). If it is, I might be offering parts for sale :( .

    Thanks again,
    Greg
     
  13. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Shooting from the hip isn't going to help you if the top of the receiver opening is pointed up at your face.

    Turn it sideways away from you, to test fire it one round.
    Then carefully inspect the fired case for any signs of bulging ahead of the rim, deformed rim, or other signs of anything abnormal.

    Then keep doing that 15-20 rounds or so, looking closely at each fired case for signs of anything unusual.

    If it doesn't spit fire & brimstone out the receiver / bolt opening pointed away from you into the weeds?
    Or come out with two diameter cases with deformed rims?

    You should be good to go.

    rc
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  14. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    RC, I hope I don't come across as undermining you, based on our post counts this very much more your sandbox than mine. I just try to share what I feel is the safest and most thorough method of going about things when we are dealing with issues like case rupture. I just feel it would be a shame if the rifle passed this test and then the brother had issues later on down the line with different ammo because the rifle was headspacing at something extreme like .070 when the SAAMI specs have .051 as a max and many people in the target world try to achieve .043 or less in their guns.

    There is also the consideration that the headspace will increase as the bolt "beds" to the new action. If we are starting off with a loose chamber and then it slacks up from there, it's literally playing with fire. Yes, it's a .22 and it's not going to sheer lugs and cause "bolt-in-forehead"- but it is a safety concern and one can readily reduce the risk.

    OP- If you don't want to buy the set from Brownell's, http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=700650 This a field gauge, the biggest of the chamber gauges. Sometimes you can still safely fire a rifle that will close on a No go gauge, so if it closes on this I would definitely prepare myself for some bolt work. You can use a few rounds of .22 as your GO gauges, just chamber and eject them and look for deformation. Again, when I'm throwing out advice for something that concerns firearm safety, I really aim to go for the most thorough and universally accepted methods, but I know that the $60 set is steep for a set of tools you'll rarely use. It's like this AWESOME pitman arm puller I have in my garage. I think it was about 40 bucks, and it did an amazing job the one time I had to pull the pitman arm on my truck.

    Another option if you absolutely don't want to get the gauges is you can use a .22 rim thickness gauge if you have a good set of 6" calipers. You can measure the brass after firing to see how it fire formed and get a decent estimate of headspace. However, this obviously involves firing the gun without checking headspacing.

    You won't need to go to a smith. If you've got a few basic tools and are somewhat handy, you'll be able to handle fitting the bolt to the gun. You can lap the recoil lug or take away material between the bolt halves to get more space or shim the halves to take space away.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  15. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    I always appreciate safety info: thank you bro.
    I have a friend who is a retired machinist (and a 'gun' guy): I'll talk to Walt show him this and we'll talk. I also realize we're not talkin BMG here, but nevertheless, the 22 lr kills more civilians in the US each year than the BMG.
    Thanks again: both if you guys.

    Greg
     
  16. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    Good luck Greg. Keep us posted on what happens!
     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Same here!

    With any Good luck it will fit perfectly!

    And not blow your face off. :D

    No, just joking!

    I grew up shooting an ancient Remington .22 rolling block with a nail for a firing pin that blew case rims like clockwork every time I shot it.
    Which was almost daily.

    So I guess I don't see the threat quite as much if properly test fired first..

    Never mind.
    You Should check the headspace with a gage just to be sure as MarlinRimfire says.

    rc
     
  18. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    DAMN. Now there's a story. I grew up in a family of anti's..Which is probably why I equate stuff like blown .22 case rims to nuclear AIDS.

    That's pretty ballsy to shoot a gun you KNOW will blow rims though. I've seen a 10/22 shooter get pretty badly burned when his decided to vent through the magwell onto his hand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  19. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    " I've seen a 10/22 shooter get pretty badly burned when his decided to vent through the magwell onto his hand."

    WHAT? That was some serious bad happening. He must not have had the mag seated properly?

    Greg
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    There have been some double-charged .22 ammo recalls in the past few years.

    In that case, headspace has nothing to do with it.

    rc
     
  21. MarlinRimfire

    MarlinRimfire Member

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    I had no idea that had been an issue. Might explain why RC's advice is to nut up and my experience is to run for the hills.

    Edit: I read about the somewhat recent Winchest double loading issues briefly. Wish I knew if it was Winchester or something else
     
  22. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I agree in this case with running rounds through it.

    Depending on what rusted, or if a scope is in the plan, DIP sells replacement hardware that will fit. You may need to call as the 25N isn't always listed but I've purchased parts for mine. https://www.diproductsinc.com/products.aspx?CAT=3603
     
  23. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    Jacksfirst got the bolt here fast! I appreciate that.

    Now, I just have to arrange to have some range time...we'll see when that happens...

    Greg
     
  24. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    So,
    The bolt is .004 too short for minimum. A friend of mine who does machine work is taking a shim and actually lengthen the bolt for me by .01 (this puts it right in the middle of acceptable). IDK all the details of how he discovered all this (it had to do with adding stickers to the bolt and then measuring the point it came into contact with the chamber or something like that. Man, I'm glad I have him: I'm lost after he explained it to me.

    Anyway: can't wait to take it out and shoot it. Walt said it won't be ready tomorrow, but that he'd get it done. Then I'll take it out and shoot it and report to you what's up. Lord willing it will be a tack driver!

    Greg
     
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