Martial Law?

Status
Not open for further replies.
IF martial law comes it won't be our troops enforcing it anyway. You'll all have your chance to peg those little blue helmets at several hundred yards.
Oh so you think UN troops will somehow be able to best our military, and our LE personnel? tinfoil.gif

. . . I haven't slept for about 24 hours now for various reasons . . .
Hey for all our differences, I mean this sincerely, get some sleep, and take care of yourself, that's not healthy.

The difference between you and I is you apparently still believe in the honorability of people and I don't.
True, but keep this in mind: For the last few years I've been dealing with some of the least honorable, most thoroughly despicable people in our society, on a daily basis, yet even though I must deal with those people and see the evil they do, I still believe most people in our society are honest people, who try to do the right thing - Even misguided people like you. :D
 
Oh so you think UN troops will somehow be able to best our military, and our LE personnel?

No, no, no, that's not what I even implied. If one believes the law is relatively immaterial to what "government" does, especially in extreme cases such as the subject here, then using the UN while the main bulk of our troops are out of the US is a given. Such troops would simply be better for the job anyway. As for LEO, good, bad or indifferent they'll do what they are told because they have families and debts and such just like everyone else.

Oh, I got 4 hrs sleep this AM. I feel all healthy now. :D

*thud*
 
Seems to me that any formal declaration of Martial Law is highly unlikely. There are many powers given the President by the various "state of emergency" laws/rules. These make it possible for the federal government to impose its will as the Administration sees fit.

Some of these powers are still on the books from the WW II era, with more added through the following decades. I've seen lists of them from time to time, although I've never "saved" them to any files. (Come to think of it, I guess it was mostly back in the days of pre-computer, "hard copy" only. :) )

Purely my opinion: Given the willingness on the part of Congress to pass the Patriot Act as it did, with the climate of fear under which it was written, I'm dubious that the Congress would be more than hesitant to restrain a President who claimed a State of Emergency. Again, IMO, their fear is more for themselves than for us. Pardon my cynicism...

Art
 
Art, +1

9/11 - nobody declared martial law, but every non-military aircraft over the US was grounded for several days.

Consider just two terrorist scenarios - a suitcase nuke in a major city or an outbreak of a virulent communicable disease (i.e. Ebola with aerosol transmission). The members of Congress would dirty their drawers agreeing with whatever the President might suggest as a defense.
 
9/11 - nobody declared martial law, but every non-military aircraft over the US was grounded for several days
But that's a long, long way from real martial law. Martial law, as far as I'm concerned, is when the courts shut down and the politicians don't stand for re-election. These are just "for the duration of the emergency," of course.

As long as we have functioning courts and elected representatives, we don't have martial law.
 
Correct, the aircraft grounding following 9-11 was WAY short of general martial law. OTOH, Art is correct that the government has lots of plans (and an entire agency - FEMA - to carry them out) for "emergency actions" short of declaring "real" martial law.
 
I'm just waiting for the first beevus to type marital law, as they invariably do in these type of threads. ;)
 
Don't we think that the more likely scenario is that martial law would be declared in a limited area, say the area of the attack? Logistically, it is simply impossible to enforce a nationwide curfew, restriction on travel, etc. There are not enough military and LEO's to enforce such measures on a nationwide basis. There may, however, be enough to seal off a large city. Ever see The Seige? It was frighteningly realistic when I saw it, probably more so today.

Do I worry about it? Not until someone brings it up...

Although, this thread brings to mind the best line from the new Star Wars movie: "So this is how liberty dies, to thunderous applause."
 
The most recent case of de facto martial law in the US was in Alaska during WWII. After fleeing the sate and leaving the citizens to fend for themselves, the military came back in large numbers and basically took over the state. I don't know that there was a formal declaration of martial law, but the Army became the de facto civil authority for Alaska during that period. While the white citizens fared pretty well, the natives did not. The military forced mass relocations of natives off the Aleutians and enforced brutal segregation policies. Instead of bothering to use the centuries of knowledge the Aleuts had built up living on those rough islands, the Army shipped all of them to SE and proceded to get mired down. The conditions were so terrible that the entire military force occupying the islands was deemed combat ineffective when it came time to re-take Attu and Kiska. The 7th Infantry had to be flown up from California to do the job instead.
 
If you can suppose a "suitcase" or other tactical nuke destroying Manhattan, taking the center of our financial world with it, then it's just a short step to foresee a response by the government that would include:

Governors calling up their state's National Guard.
Curfews for "major metropolitan areas" (such as state capitols, and urban areas, spreading out to suburban areas, for safety, of course).
Activating any reservists available, because you just never know if another set of eyes may spot Osama.
Locking down all air and sea ports, for safety, of course.
Curtailing interstate travel... for safety, of course.
Demanding valid reasons for intra-state travel, just to be on the safe side...

Banks would be closed "while we evaluate our losses" or "while we get our computer systems back online."
ATMs and credit cards would be worth just the plastic they're printed on.
Cash would be King... at ten cents on the dollar. Honest men would feed their families via barter, or turn to theivery.
Anyone caught violating the new rules would not be held for civilian trial, but instead would be confined pending the outcome of a military tribunal.
With most criminals going to tribunals, courts would close...

If it looks like martial law, and it smells like martial law...
 
No, no, no, that's not what I even implied. If one believes the law is relatively immaterial to what "government" does, especially in extreme cases such as the subject here, then using the UN while the main bulk of our troops are out of the US is a given.

So tell me then,

How many countries in the world have a coherent heavy lift capacity to import enough troops to enforce this martial law?

Last time I did a quick check of worldwide military capabilities there was just one, with 2 others looking to build such a heavy lift capability.

Like to gues what these countries are? The only country with a coherent heavy lift is the US. The other countries are China and Russia.

So how will all that heavy lift arrive unchallenged? Because it will be our own heavy lift that is doing it. In other words our military.

Of course that last statement is an oxymoron. If martial law ever happens it will not be Blue Helmets unless they are blue helmets on US troops. (Sorry, that's another oxymoron).

It doesn't take much to sink an invasion fleet that sails without the support of massive naval superiority and air superiority. Since we have both right now a few warships and a handful of aircraft could sink the invasion fleet mid-stride. Our troops not stopping the invasion is little different to them crushing the populace under their boots.

Our dominance of the sky and sea will not change for at least another 20 or so years. What heavy lift China and Russia have by then remains to be seen but I fully expect that the US will be the leader for the next 50 years or so, although during that time the the edge we hold will be eroded. I like to think that in the event of a large scale government sell-out the military will actually do what it is tasked to do first and foremost- defend the constitution.

So if martial law happens before then it will be our troops opressing our citizens.

If you want to set the scenario in 2045 I might think differently.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top