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Marylander's-So it begins

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Norton, Jan 24, 2005.

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  1. Norton

    Norton Member

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    The John's Hopkins/Howard County/Montgomery County/Ceasefire MD crowd must have had a recent pep rally as we see the start of the annual letter writing season from them:



    >>>>Baltimore Sun-1/24/05


    Gun database needs a chance to prove its value

    The Maryland State Police recently issued a report calling for the repeal of Maryland's law that requires the state police to maintain a database with "ballistic fingerprints" for all new handguns sold in the state ("State police call for scrapping ballistic-identification program," Jan. 19). Although a report last year from the same agency highlighted the potential utility of the system for solving gun crimes, the state police now deem it a failure because it hasn't led to any convictions.

    But this should come as no surprise. The state police have long known about barriers to the system's use and problems with equipment, software, training and quality control, but have done nothing to correct these problems.

    Police in Maryland have recovered many thousands of shell casings from crime scenes since the law's inception. Yet only a little more than 200 pieces of ballistic evidence have been checked against the database for new handguns.

    No credible scientist would make conclusions about the effectiveness of a new safety device if he or she knew that those responsible for using the device never really took it out of the box.

    Gun violence in Maryland has enormous social costs. And millions of taxpayers' dollars have been invested in the ballistic imaging system.

    The state police should commit to trying to make the database work before issuing any more reports on its effectiveness.


    Daniel Webster
    Baltimore


    The writer is co-director of the Center for Gun Policy and Research at the Johns Hopkins University. <<<<<
     
  2. echo3mike

    echo3mike Member

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    Some tranisitional phase my therapist keeps talkin
    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


    S.
     
  3. Sleeping Dog

    Sleeping Dog Member

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    Dan Webster makes a logical, convincing argument:

    1. The system doesn't work.

    2. Maybe someday it'll work if we keep dumping gummint money down this rat-hole.

    3. That's gummint money, folks, free money, other peoples' money, money we don't miss.

    4. We've already dumped millions down this rat-hole, keep up the good work.

    5. Guns are bad.

    I stand in awe of the genius.
     
  4. SB88LX

    SB88LX Member

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    They just want to solve gun crimes, im all about prevention, a shall issue permit system would do wonders for the many ????hole areas of this state.
     
  5. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    yada yada yada.....It's going away, so let tears mix with the blood pumping from your hearts you liberal extremists.....
     
  6. Norton

    Norton Member

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    Spot77 has a point.....the system is dead. It WILL be going away.

    Delegate Joan Cadden (D-Brooklyn Park) will be proposing legislation to repeal the ballistic fingerprinting so that she can take credit for making it go away, in spite of the fact that it will be going away anyhow.

    I will NOT be expending my letter to the editor quota over this issue....I'm waiting to take on Lil' Rob and Gail Gunn over the assault weapon crime bill.
     
  7. tall2tango

    tall2tango Member

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    Irked

    It was with some positive amazement that I read the MD State Police recommendation that the ballistic signature data base data collection efforts be terminated. Their acknowledgement and recognition that the data being collected is producing no positive results for the dollars expended smacks of the kind of intelligence we normally do not get from any state agency here. A breath of fresh air? Some real common sense coming into play? Yet, here we have our beknighted gun-control lobbyists railing against common sense money savings in a state that's searching to fund other state programs, and whining that it's too soon to cut off funds for a worthless project.

    [RANT MODE = ON] :banghead:

    The folks that make these appeals blithely believe that criminals will stop their nefarious actions with more laws/legislation/restrictions being implemented. That logic irks me. Folks, that just is not a realistic expectation unless the 2nd Amendment is suspended and we become a totalitarian state (like NAZI Germany was) where everyone is disarmed. That doesn't seem to be a very likely outcome.

    In my innocence, I used to believe we could legislate protection for the law-abiding citizenry. I'm long past that point. We're a long way in MD from being permitted to protect ourselves, except within the confines of our homes, thanks to the gun-control do-gooders and their misapplied logic.

    To restate the obvious, all that results is that criminals remain armed to prey on the rest of us who are prohibited from being armed. There are enough gun-related laws already in place here in MD; they do not mean a thing to our criminal element. Why? Because the laws we have are not being adequately enforced on criminals who violate them.

    Apparently I'm not in the ranks of the PC gun abolitionists here. Not that I really care about being PC any more. I just wonder where is their common sense and their ability to see the obvious: if you are given the right to forcefully defend yourself should the need arise, you are less likely to be the object of interest of an armed criminal. If it comes to having to fight, let's make the playing field level for both parties.

    [RANT MODE = OFF]

    Hmmm, guess I got a smidgeon off topic there, didn't I? Time to put the soapbox away? Nah! I think I'll leave it out. I might need it again soon to vent more about the illogical state in which I reside and the overly liberal majority that makes me so glad I've lived my life in "The Free State." :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2005
  8. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Well, at least the US Mint doesnt include 'The Free State' on the Maryland quarter. It was probalby a smart choice on Glendening's behalf, he probably doesnt want to be sued for false advertising. :neener:

    Kharn
     
  9. MDHunter

    MDHunter Member

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    Response to Sun Article

    Hi Guys,

    This is my first post here, found a link on a hunting forum and joined today. I am one of the Maryland residents stuck under the liberal dogma about guns that has no factual basis. :cuss:

    Norton - I saw you're not going to reply, waiting for the larger crime issue when it surfaces. I may reply to this to tee up the thought about Maryland politicians spending too much time, effort, and money on gun-related issues that have ZERO impact (witness the less restrictive gun laws, but also lesser violent crime statistics, experienced by our VA and PA neighbors).

    Is there a link that you can refer me to, for the article?
     
  10. Norton

    Norton Member

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    mdhunter,

    Welcome aboard.

    By all means write them!

    baltimoresun.com
     
  11. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Tall2tango....keep the soapbox out! MD has a growing number of activists and our voice is getting heard just a little more each year.

    Norton's right about saving his "quota" of letters to the editor....about 90% of what he writes gets published......so hopefully MdHunter (welcome aboard!) and others can write a few letters.

    Since Norton and I are brothers and share the same unique last name, we've decided it's in our best interest for me to not write to the papers, lest we be branded as minions of the NRA, or people merely recall our last name and assume we're one and the same. It would diminish his effectiveness.
     
  12. Girlwithagun

    Girlwithagun Member

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    Hey Spot, just make up a fake name like our good friend Gail Gunn. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Norton

    Norton Member

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    If we beat back Gail Gunn and her minions and all it takes from me is a few well-written letters, then all of the pain of sitting through Mrs. Chuvala's English class will have been worth it! :neener:
     
  14. tall2tango

    tall2tango Member

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    Fellow MD THR'ers ,

    The fact is that I'm not a NRA minion (none of you branded me as such - thanx!). As I've advanced in youth to late middle age, I've grown less receptive to the party line as being for the good of all. I want to live my life in peace with neither the "nefarians" threatening me nor the liberals telling me what's good for me and how to live. I've enough grey matter between my ears to make my own decisions; and I've enough discipline from growing up with my Depression-era parents to know Right from Wrong. I borrow my motto for living from our Revolutionary War days: "Don't Tread on Me."

    So, my current vice is target shooting. Fellow sheeple (I like that term) may be into fishing, archery, wood carving, horse racing, drinking, or some other legally allowable vice. See where this argument can go when I/you decide "we" don't like what "you" do?

    Even if I were not a gun owner, I would support the premise that we, as law-abiding citizens, are due a level playing field when it comes to defending ourselves. My liberal neighbors can plead not to get robbed, beat up or killed; I want to have a more active role determining what happens to me. 911 is usually too late when TSHTF.

    The bottom line to this post is that once I start writing, I can get pretty fired up. I'll stay away from the Sun and let you who have a better tolerance threshold than I scribe. We need to present a face that represents the sane and concerned citizenry we are. The last thing we need to do is to come off sounding like a group of Bleeding Heart Liberals! :eek:
     
  15. Archangel

    Archangel Member

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    I went ahead and wrote them, too.

    By the way, if anyone hasn't already read it, the MD State Police report on the IBIS shortcomings is linked here. (link shamelessly stolen from when Norton posted it. :p )

    I can only describe my feelings while reading it as "glee."
     
  16. Norton

    Norton Member

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    tall2tango,

    I've written some pretty, ahem, heated letters to the Sun and many of them have been published.

    Spot77 and I are, though NRA members, not otherwise affiliated with them. I think this works in our (and yours if you write) favor as we can hold the line that we are the true grassroots movement in Maryland, whereas Gail Gunn and the Ceasefire Maryland folks claim that title for themselves. Funny how in their mind grassroots equals paid lobbyist.

    Follow your heart and write to the Sun.....if you get "fired up" then so be it......when liberty is at stake, a little heat can be a good thing!
     
  17. Cliff

    Cliff Member

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    :D
     
  18. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

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  19. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Well, heck, just throw a few million more free govenment dollars at the problem. Maybe it'll get worse.
     
  20. Norton

    Norton Member

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    >>>Well, heck, just throw a few million more free govenment dollars at the problem. Maybe it'll get worse.<<<

    StandingWolf:

    That's what we do here in Maryland.....if something is screwed up, it must certainly because we haven't spent enough money on it. Look at the Baltimore City Schools, the Capitol Beltway, the Baltimore Beltway, etc, etc :banghead:
     
  21. greyhound

    greyhound Member

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    Good grief guys good luck.

    Even in Alabama when I bought a new S&W they give you that stupid cartridge case (unlike in MD where they give it to the gummint).
    I just chucked it. Though I felt like I was getting over when I walked out that day with my handgun. "Y'all sure you don't want to hold it for a week?"

    Much different here but we'll see when my six month Jefferson County residency is up and a newly transplanted Yankee applies for his CCW! :)
     
  22. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Unless somebody does some SERIOUS, hardcore arm twisting, BF is going away. With MD's financial problems, what sane legislator would propose spending millions more on a failed system in the name of a de facto handgun ban?

    Ug...don't answer that....Monkey County has plenty of rich wierdos that would propose EXACTLY that..... :cuss:
     
  23. MDHunter

    MDHunter Member

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    My Response to Webster Letter

    Attaching my response to Webster's letter - focused on the waste of taxpayer dollars, just intro'd the "ineffective gun control legislation" to tee up later discussions when those letters start flying.....


    In a letter to the editor published on 1/24/05, Daniel Webster writes in
    support of continuing the Maryland ballistic fingerprinting database,
    noting that "millions of taxpayer dollars have been invested in the
    ballistic imaging system."

    I question the logic in investing ADDITIONAL millions of dollars into a
    system when the benefits are not clear, at a time when the state of
    Maryland badly needs more funding to support education and other
    critical initiatives.

    Webster also notes that "gun violence in Maryland has enormous social
    costs." At least he's partly right on this count - the Maryland
    legislature has spent an inordinate amount of time (and thus, taxpayer
    dollars) the last few years drafting overly restrictive laws on gun
    control. The result? Maryland's rate of violent crime exceeds the
    rates of our neighbors in Virginia and Pennsylvania, whose gun control
    laws are much less stringent than ours. The only Maryland neighbor
    whose gun laws are more restrictive than ours is Washington DC, the
    murder capital of the United States! If the goal of the legislature is
    to surpass DC and claim this dubious honor, they're going about it the
    right way.

    Let's stop wasting taxpayer dollars, and legislators' time, on frivolous
    gun control legislation and research that fail to provide any resultant
    decrease in violent crime.

    Michael Moore
     
  24. Norton

    Norton Member

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    mdhunter,

    Good letter! It's nice to have another letter writer amongst our motley assortment of Maryland'ers here.

    Michael Moore, huh? <for definition of irony, see here> :D :D
     
  25. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Somebody once told me that for every one of us, there is an equal, yet exact opposite person somewhere in the world.

    Fortunately for us, the evil one in this case doesn't reside in Md.


    Great letter mdhunter; hope it sees print.
     
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