Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Garandimal, Jan 3, 2021.
FALs..........cool but kinda went out of vogue after the '82 sheep war.
Me too, when compared to the M1A1:
But honestly when it comes to fighting off the hordes, I'll stick to one of my ARs and a Tupperware 9mm.
A SOCOM is perfectly capable of mounting optics.
It wouldnt be my first pick. If SHTF, odds are youre going to be humping it around- roads blocked by mobs, rubble, stalled cars, etc. I want to carry as much ammo as possible. Ounces matter, and .223 is adequate against two legged varmints. I dont even care if they survive a hit, as long as they are no longer persuing or shooting at me.
But my biggest argument against the SOCOM is noise. Those things are LOUD! Disharging it once will alert every hostile for miles of your location, and totally deafen you in the process. I dont know if it is really practical to suppress one, or find subsonic ammo.......Heck even the op-rod slapping around is pretty loud.
Gimme an AR with a can, thanks.
9 pounds with no ammo and no optics, I don't think so. And owning an 18" barreled .308 I can promise the muzzle blast from the 16" isn't going to get better. I do have a peep sight rifle, an 1891 Argentine Mauser that is extremely accurate at 100 yards, unfortunately I can't shoot the peeps any more past maybe 200.
For 9 pounds I can have my AR with red dot, backup sights, light, a sling and several loaded magazines. For a pound more I can take my heavy barreled AR with 1-6 variable, backup sights, sling and a couple of magazines. And if I'm really desperate for range I can take my 6.5 Grendel, or even my HK SLB 2000K, although the biggest magazine I have for it is 10 rounds, and I'd have to get a mortgage on the house to buy any more of them.
I might be old (65) but I don't remember the good old days through rose colored lenses in my bifocals.
Good for Mas Ayoob, don’t really need his opinion on what is a good SHTF rifle but of others do then more power to him.
556 AR15 Carbine
FAL or M1 Garand for anti-material
Might be the odd man out. But I would and plan to use my G19 with my Ruger PCC 9mm carbine. Interchangeable mags. Uses same ammo. Good enough for 100 yards. Dont plan on being in a firefight. And if I am ill probably loose. Depending on situation. Im one man vs how ever many come looking for my stuff. Mainly my freeze dried food, beans, rice, and ammo. Also didnt think we did shtf posts.
Ad copy for Springfield Armory or not, Ayoob can do whatever Ayoob wants to.
And yes, I'd love to own what he's promoting in that ad copy. The thing barely weighs more than my SKS and there was a time I thought my SKS would be a great "it hits the fan" rifle.
That's more like my suburban and urban reality.
Well I live in the burbs. Im more worried about soccer moms looking for food for kids. Then being over run by Marauders. Could be a gagel of Karen's.
Yeah I found that out when I owned an HK SL7! The price of the rifle wasn't all that bad; at least not in comparison to all the other little things you wanted to go with it. What really hurt was that most spare parts, magazines, and things like scope mounts were priced in the stratosphere when you could find them (and that wasn't very often).
Traded it for a NIB Hungarian SA85M and never looked back.
As to my "get away from it all" rifle choice it would probably be something old school like my AR15 SP1 or my DIY XM177E2 carbine.
A DSA SA58 Traditional rifle weighs 8.75
A M1A Standard rifle in the composite stock weighs 8# 8oz in the wood stock 9# 3oz
according to respective manufacturer's websites. So much for the big weight difference.
I carried both an M-14 variant and AR variants in places where the poop often hits the rotating device. Give me the AR any day of the week. It ain’t perfect, but it’s a damned sight better fighting rifle than the M1A / M-14 family.
Mas has liked the M-14 platform for decades, so I do not see his article as shilling for SAI. I highly respect his choice, for an oatmeal-hits-the-fan rifle.
The troubles of 2020 did prompt me to add an LMT 20” 5.56 AR upper, with a twist rate suited for 77-grain OTM bullets. That helps with velocity, for long-range performance, but, it is still 5.56 NATO, so, not anti-material, with motor vehicles being the material, in this context.
I purchased a small but meaningful quantity of Federal Truball Penetrator 12 gauge slugs, in 2016, in anticipation of the 2017 Stupid Bowl, as I knew I would be posted at one of the barricades. This was a time when terrorists in Europe were using stolen truck to mow folks down, and, my Brenneke hardened slugs were a number of years old by then. Of course, this is a close-range solution, and, as Mas’ article indicated, one has to feed a shotgun early, and often, if things get really nasty.
I have two Browning BLR lever rifles, chambered in .308 Winchester. One is a Takedown, which makes it pack-able, and, I could pack the Takedown, in taken-down mode, while carrying something else in my hands, or on a sling. The .308 Winchester gives me reach, and the ability to affect things that are inside vehicles.
I have a Winchester Model 70 Safari Express, .375 H&H, which could really mess up material things, but, like the shotgun, it requires feeding, early and often, if facing a horde. My .375 H&H ammo is quite old, by now, and I never accumulated much of it, but this cartridge has escaped much of the panic-buying, so is still available, locally and from on-line sources. I may well buy some fresh .375 H&H this week.
An M1A, or other “Main Battle Rifle,” would give me the ability to combine some features of each of my above-mentioned weapons. The two specific rural places, to which we would go, if we had to hunker-down outside of the Houston, Texas metro area, are heavily wooded, which lessens the need for long-range cartridge performance, so, if I wanted to spend ~$2K at a local gun store, I am not likely to be using it to add an M1A. (IF any are in stock!)
My most recent serious “tactical” training was with one of my Benelli M2 shotguns, and I have familiarity with the Benelli platform that dates back to the early Nineties, with an HK/Benelli M1 Super 90. The Benelli M2 is a light-in-weight weapon, which is good thing, with a couple of age-related upper-body physical issues. So, if I had to exfil, on foot, from an area, I might want have a Benelli slung, or in my hands, for close-range emergencies, and either my Takedown BLR, or an AR15 with my LAW-folder-ed lower, inside a pack. My Eberlestock pack is sized to internally and discreetly accommodate a folded 16” AR15.
I’ve never bought a gun specifically for any SHTF scenario. I bought them for any number of other reasons.
It appears Massad thinks a gun I currently own (M1A Scout) is ideal for when a SHTF situation develops. That’s good to know as I respect his opinion.
I always figured there would be a number of rifles used if SHTF around my house I’d probably be manning something that’s not an M14 though.
I can get behind the thought for a .308 or similar battle rifle being used. It will likely poke through body armor, not overly powerful but definitely plenty power to handle most social work. I don’t particularly care for the large format of most of those rifles though. I think I would still be using an AR but in a heavier caliber than .223. I have a 6.8 for hunting and that cartridge seems like a really nice mixture of small format (ar pistol braced) and power without sacrificing capacity or gaining weight to make it handle like a barbell.
This entire thread is why THR doesn't generally "do" SHTF threads.
SHTF can mean just about anything. My “oh no, I better grab a rifle” gun is my AR. It could just as easily be an SKS or Marlin 336 however.
Read up on the short barrel M1 tankers, total flameball. Bad legal advice, questionable rifle choice, whats not to like? Other than that, how was the play, Mrs Lincoln?
Why? Got something against debate, and differing opinions? That sounds like CNN...
Debate this... The M1A series of rifle is a fine rifle. I'd love to have one. However, even if I did, I wouldn't choose it as a SHTF weapon. Like has been said, you spend a lot more time humping, then you do shooting. Without the resources of an entire Army at your disposal, going looking for a fight isn't how you survive, so the order of the day is break contact, and di di. You want to be light, and have lots of rounds. Well, at least I do. I have more powerful weapons, (same basic capabilities as the M1A) everybody should, but specialized tools aren't what you hump on a daily basis.
I’ll be honest, if it hits the fan I don’t really think it’s going to matter much at all which rifle you have. Your ability and willingness to use said rifle will matter much more than that. That said of course a high cap semi auto would be the way to go, less and faster reloads combined with faster follow up shots is the determining factor, I just don’t think the advantage would be much, not likely enough to matter.
Also if you believe the extra four lbs of rifle is going to get you killed, well maybe a gym membership is in order. No offense, but seriously, I've carried (while hunting) a 1874 Sharps with a 36” full octagonal barrel weighing in over 14lbs, guess what, I didn’t die it just wasn’t that bad and I’m a far cry from an athletic specimen. What are you going to do if you have to carry a car battery, or 5 gals of gas or ONE gallon of water, that gonna take you down to?
I’m sorry the “lighter gun” argument is just silly to me unless your planning on several days and dozens of miles of hiking during the s hitting the fan, then I get it, but I don’t really know why one would do that. I live on <100 acres and would only leave to check on family, most of them live a mile or so away, between me and my son I believe we could carry a car battery a mile, I don’t think a extra 3lbs on my rifle would really matter.
My shtf rifles, I have an AR, an AK, 1885m, a M1 Garand, 7mm with a Swarovski on it, some various .22’s and 12ga’s. I’d likely use them all if the S hit the fan, I’d probably give my AR to my son to use as it’s my least favorite mainly because it’s a 22 which effectively limits it to varmints. Think about it, why in the world would you limit yourself to one rifle, ever, but especially in a shtf scenario.
My (likely unpopular) opinion.
Guess that’s one reason why we have different opinions. I was thinking more like keeping people come coming on our place vs going other places. I was thinking more towards beltfeds than running around stuff.
We don't do SHTF, even if it is someone famous, so I suggest a different angle, or beg the resident Mod to re-open it.
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