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Material to put in walls to reduce penetration

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Fryerpower, Feb 15, 2013.

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  1. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I almost threw out the phone book suggestion but I'm sure no one wants a massive stack of paper in the walls in case of fire. Add denim to that list.

    The problem I see with bookcases is both the lack paper books these days and the not so cheap necessity to fill them, two walls worth, before they become effective. Let's also not forget that kids are born believing everything is an obsticle to be climbed. I remember fondly the 5' tall dresser I frequently used to launch myself across my own room onto the bed. Iiiiiiit cooood have endedddd in bwain damnage.

    Gravel would be great with the exceptions of weight and a days worth of wheelbarrowing it would take to move it.
     
  2. Tomcat47

    Tomcat47 Member

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    Best economical alternative I can think of....

    And to take it a step further, before laying brick wrap it in kevlar instead of Tyvek! :)
     

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  3. Airbrush Artist

    Airbrush Artist member

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  4. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    HDPE
     
  5. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Did some looking into that one but every report said rifle bullets, specifically .223 Rem. cut right through it. I'd almost bet it would work using the 2X or plywood backing but tough to say.

    Did some demo of UHMW tanks last year that were used for liquid storage and badly wanted to take some home for woodworking jigs and target backers but alas, against company policy. At one point I had to cut holes around the perimeter to collapse the roof and this stuff was murder on blades even some 25 years after exposure to petroleum products on a continuous basis. With hso's HDPE suggestion, I Googled "UHMW bulletproof" and found a video of .45ACP vs. 1" wherein the bullet was stopped but a high velocity pointy round...
     
  6. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    One day when I build Fort Deckard, the interior walls will be built of something stronger than sheet rock. I have the wife convinced that brick can be quite elegant for the interior of a home.

    I heard once of Kevlar ballistic panels that can be built into walls.
     
  7. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    I haven't done enough testing on this to be fully confident, but it certainly can't hurt if your home's exterior walls are a bit more sturdy to begin with. I live in a brick house. There's definitely a possibility of some bullets being able to bust through, but it's a heck of a lot better than wood or vinyl siding in my opinion. I imagine it would stop or substantially slow most handgun rounds without a problem.
     
  8. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

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    Phonebooks.
     
  9. WCraven

    WCraven Member

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    I like the phonebooks and tires .. also water will stop bullets if you could come up with a way to hold in within the walls as it's cheap. the more height you have the more water pressure .. 10' is close to 5 pounds of water pressure.
     
  10. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    For those catching up, a summary of a few proposals:

    Phone books, tires. Both fire hazards.
    Water. Destructive.
    Gravel, lead, bricks. Heavy for structure, risk of damage.
    Sand. Heavy, can retain moisture causing mold.
    Layered Sheetrock. Simple, progressively heavier as protection increases.

    Fiberglass cloth & resin. Lightweight, may be effective?
    Ceramic tile. Effective to some extent, one-shot protection.
    Kevlar/ballistic barrier. Expensive, may not stop rifle calibers.
    Book shelves. Effective, decorative, can hide on-wall materials, expensive to fill.
    HDPE/plastic sheeting. Cost effective, simple, may not stop rifle calibers.
    Lexan (bulletproof glass) with stud wall barrier. Elevated cost but effective.

    There may be some I've forgotten. The OP intends to build mock ups and test.
     
  11. texasgun

    texasgun Member

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    for beginners: don't use .223 for home defense if over-penetration is your issue :banghead:

    shotgun or handgun with JHP .....
     
  12. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Hollow point ammo in traditional form becomes packed with gypsum when fired into Sheetrock, effectively creating a FMJ. The .223 with its thin skin, light weight and higher velocity fragments in that same material. The rifle is also far more effective on target and an excellent choice IMO.
     
  13. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    While the reason for your request seems unusual I have a simple method if you have basic carpenter skills;

    1. Remove the Sheetrock from one side of the wall. You only need to remove enough to expose how high you are going.

    2. Measure and cut 2 x 4's to lay flat between the wall studs. It should be 16" on center so that figures out to 14 1/2".

    3. Stack the 2x4's laying flat as you go up inside the wall. Nail the boards together as you go to hold them in place. I would also use metal straps to help hold everything in place.

    4. Replace drywall, mud and repaint entire room.

    5. This gives you 3 1/2" of wood plus 1" of drywall for a bullet to pass through.

    For the flooring look at stone such as granite.
     
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    See, that was my suggestion, except instead of 2x4s which are insanely easy for most firearm ammunition to blow right through, I suggested dry-stacking regular house bricks. Pretty cheap, not really all that heavy, and definitely going to disrupt the passage of at least a few rounds of whatever common defensive cartridges.
     
  15. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Post #86 highlights most of the suggestions given so far, including 2X4 barriers with Lexan. The idea being Lexan deflects so: Sheetrock, wood, then Lexan. Bullet expends partial energy in wood, is stopped by Lexan and encapsulated. No ricochet.
     
  16. texasgun

    texasgun Member

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    "The .223 with its thin skin, light weight and higher velocity fragments in that same material."

    so .223 doesn't go thru sheet-rock? LOL. if that would be the case it would be an awful round.... seriously.... .223 and the NATO version cut through sheet rock, car glass and light metal like a hot knife thru butter.

    not saying that JHP won't go thru either... but saying that .223 fragments upon impact on such a light material yet a 9mm round goes thru is funny :rolleyes:
     
  17. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Not every bullet is built to penetrate. If it were, we'd only need one type and caliber for everything.

    Roll eyes all you like, I trust Larry Vickers did his homework and I watched the tests. Standard home construction wall mock up with Sheetrock, studs, Sheetrock with each "wall" spaced at 12'. Last wall with insulated aluminum siding.
     
  18. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    texasgun, do your own tests, and you might be surprised. If you use pretty much any load of .223 besides M855, it is less likely to over-penetrate than most defensive pistol loads.

    I have preached for years that worrying about 'over-penetration' is futile. When you are fighting for your life, your first and foremost concern should be how likely a given round will be to stop the bad guy. Even if you found a magical round that will reliably stop a bad guy, but WON'T be likely to go through them and hit whatever is behind them, you are very likely to miss at least some of your shots. Try to arrange your home in advance so that there are no people sleeping at the end of likely fields of fire. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to explore solutions like this to prevent unwanted damage. But remember that in any risk management process, the final step is to accept the risk you can't control and move on.
     
  19. T.R.

    T.R. Member

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    Bricks work well.

    TR
     
  20. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    A lot of Beavis tourists here today.
     
  21. Fryerpower

    Fryerpower Member

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    3, 2, 1...
    And they are gone!
    Great job Moderators! They were clearly drunks at the computer on a Saturday night.

    Jim
     
  22. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    If I were truly concerned about this, I would not modify an existing structure. It would be new construction unless you have a basment like my brother with 12 foot ceilings. Plus, you don't need to harden the entire house. You only need to harden selected portions of the house. So, you could have a large basement with heavy steel doors and bullet barriers behind the doors (essentially you walk in an L as you enter the house). Leave the above ground portion of the house as normal construction or use 2x6 walls and harden them slightly. Install bullet barriers inside the house in selected areas and constuct basement walls with concert (preferably poured) with ventilation designed to deal with the likely humidity issues. Essentially you are creating defensible zones in an emergency. But you are not going to stop an all out military style strike (with explosives) no matter what you do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  23. wrc

    wrc Member

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    In my old house, the interior was built with 3/8" sheetrock over 1/4" backer board. Every room had that. It was a real pain when you needed to cut into it. My father's house across town had the same, so I guess it was just a trend for building a house in the mid-50's (right along with steel doorframes). The extra 1/2" of concrete board probably slows down incoming fire.

    Having light corrugated steel in between studs helps make incoming rounds deflect and keyhole, from what I understand. I don't know if that helps in the real world.
     
  24. Tinpig

    Tinpig Member

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    It's been mentioned several times, but tightly dry-laid bricks inside the stud wall seem like a good solution. You only need to stack them as high as you need protection. Brick varies a lot in dimensions, but you can easily find ones 3 1/2" wide or less so that they fit inside the wall cavity.

    Doing quick math I figure a 10 foot wall stacked 6 feet high with brick would take more than 500 bricks. Figuring 5lbs/brick that's well over a ton, so be sure there's a load-bearing wall or foundation beneath it.

    Of course the studs won't offer much protection, so better mark them on the wall, and be sure you're narrow enough to stand between them (14 1/2 in.)
    :)

    Tinpig
     
  25. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Depending on room layout, you could armor the headboards of the kids' beds and tell them to hunker down if they heard a shot.
     
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