Maybe I should have thought this one out a little bit

[Johnm1]

I've always thought combination guns were a great concept and I've had a couple of them (Savage Model 24s) to shoot but in different calibers and gauges than yours. I have to ask you how the trigger is on yours? I don't presently own a Model 24 in any configuration because the ones I shot had the most miserable trigger pulls of any firearm I've ever shot and trips to the gunsmith to improve the trigger were wastes of time. I might own one if Timney made a trigger replacement for it and, if I did, it would have the same gauge and caliber as yours.

yhis is my third Model 24. The other two were sold for the exact same reason as you. 22/410 and 22/20. Couldn’t hit anything with the 22. Triggers were terrible. Stiff, real stiff.

always wanted a varmint combo in centerfire over 12 gauge. The ship had two, one with a scope and one without. I bought the one without as the trigger was light years better than the other two. Still stiff and I’m guessing around 10 pounds (WAG). So it’s heavy but has no creep. It may not get any better but it is ‘acceptable’.

it weighs in right at 8 pounds. The 24F is the most advanced. I am still working up a load for the goody 1/14 twist. I’m sitting at the bench waiting to pick up my target and may have something to work with. 45 grain projectile over 26 grains of 4320 is almost a group At 100 yards. I’ll work from there.

if you want to have one just understand it takes some work to get a load and then regulate it to the shotgun barrel. Once I have a load I’ll see how well (or not) they regulate to each other. I’m considering adding a beach site to account for what I expect will be unregulated barrels. These are known to not be regulated.

 

[SwampWolf]

Still stiff and I’m guessing around 10 pounds (WAG). So it’s heavy but has no creep. It may not get any better but it is ‘acceptable’.

That would be "acceptable" to me too. I don't expect a firearm like the Model 24 to have a target grade trigger or anything close; a decent trigger, like the one you have now, would have been fine with me.
As for the twist on the .223 barrel, the 1/14 rate is about perfect for a .45 grain bullet. Anything much heavier (i.e., longer) and I'd want a faster (and more versatile) rate of spin, something like 1/9.
I'm interested to see how your project develops, keep us updated.

 

[horsey300]

My intent is to preserve fur as much as I can. By law I must use expanding projectiles but I’m trying to stay away from The explosive Ammunition.

I shoot hides too, at 200 yds, that spsx didn't even exit on the last fox we knocked over, broadside.

 

[kBob]

Local Pawn shop has a nice older .410/.22LR with wood... unfortunately they have it marked for Gun Broker pricing....

-kBob

 

[Johnm1]

At this stage of load development I’ll be lucky to get an acceptable group at 100 yards though the 45 grain projectile show promise. The only two bobcats I have harvested were shot with a deer rifle. 270 and 30-40 Krag. The damage was significant.

That would be "acceptable" to me too. I don't expect a firearm like the Model 24 to have a target grade trigger or anything close; a decent trigger, like the one you have now, would have been fine with me.
As for the twist on the .223 barrel, the 1/14 rate is about perfect for a .45 grain bullet. Anything much heavier (i.e., longer) and I'd want a faster (and more versatile) rate of spin, something like 1/9.
I'm interested to see how your project develops, keep us updated.

I shoot hides too, at 200 yds, that spsx didn't even exit on the last fox we knocked over, broadside.

the 45 grain was the most consistent.
100 yards 4 shots

 

[daniel craig]

With the accuracy you can expect from this firearm, it won’t make a difference.

 

[Johnm1]

I’m doing this on my phone Because that’s where my pictures are and just butchering it. Accidentally hit send post instead of preview.
The above picture was of the 100 yard group with the 45 grain bullet. Here, if I don’t butcher it again is the 45 grain at 50 yards.



I’m using a 6 o’clock hold, so not Too bad. Although I can reach the lands with the 50 grain bullet I can’t with either the 45 or 40 grain bullets.

 

[Johnm1]

With the accuracy you can expect from this firearm, it won’t make a difference.

We will draw out what can from this rifle. Whatever that is. It might just be 100 yard rifle. That would be disappointing for single shot rifle. But you may be right.

One of the issues is shooting a hot barrel. All of the previous models had the rifle barrel fixed on top of the shotgun barrel and they were known to walk on a hot barrel. This model has a ring on the front of the rifle barrel that allows the rifle barrel to grow when it gets hot. I'm not convinced that it works yet though the 50 yard groups were shot without waiting for the barrel to cool.

 

[daniel craig]

We will draw out what can from this rifle. Whatever that is. It might just be 100 yard rifle. That would be disappointing for single shot rifle. But you may be right.

One of the issues is shooting a hot barrel. All of the previous models had the rifle barrel fixed on top of the shotgun barrel and they were known to walk on a hot barrel. This model has a ring on the front of the rifle barrel that allows the rifle barrel to grow when it gets hot. I'm not convinced that it works yet though the 50 yard groups were shot without waiting for the barrel to cool.

I mean you have to realize what the thing was designed for. It’s not a precision distance rifle. The rifle barrel is there to give you little more range than the shotgun and not much. If the rifle shoots minute of paper plate at 100 I’d say that’s acceptable.

 

[Johnm1]

I mean you have to realize what the thing was designed for. It’s not a precision distance rifle. The rifle barrel is there to give you little more range than the shotgun and not much. If the rifle shoots minute of paper plate at 100 I’d say that’s acceptable.

What is the point of the above post?

 

[daniel craig]

What is the point of the above post?

The point is, unless I’m reading you wrong, you seem unhappy with the accuracy you’re getting from this firearm.

 

[FL-NC]

First off, cool setup. Second, either your bore is obstructed or it isn't. I think you are overthinking this. I have taken several turkeys with match grade 223 in 75 and 77 grain with body shots- it is very effective and just zips through the vitals, so the birds don't blow up or anything crazy. It is also legal to take turkeys with a rifle on private land in Fl and other places, but I don't know where you are hunting. The 24F is ideal for this application if a turkey hangs up calling and won't move into shotgun range.

 

[Johnm1]

First off, cool setup. Second, either your bore is obstructed or it isn't. I think you are overthinking this. I have taken several turkeys with match grade 223 in 75 and 77 grain with body shots- it is very effective and just zips through the vitals, so the birds don't blow up or anything crazy. It is also legal to take turkeys with a rifle on private land in Fl and other places, but I don't know where you are hunting. The 24F is ideal for this application if a turkey hangs up calling and won't move into shotgun range.

it is a cool setup. I was never concerned about obstruction. Just the muzzle blast off of the extension impacting the projectile As it left the barrel.

unfortunately it is not legal to take a turkey with a rifle in Arizona.

 

[Picher]

I had a couple and some were quite heavy to lug around. A hammer that you have to cock before shooting at a flushing bird is not great and combined with a full choke on a 20 gauge, pretty much useless for that. Also, the centerfire/20 gauge weighed a lot to carry around on a day of hunting. Sights on several were terrible, especially front sights.

One had .357 mag over 20 and the barrels were braised at the muzzle, but the "weld" broke, so the rifle wasn't very accurate. That was the heaviest and least-useful one of the bunch. (Never shot any memorable critters with any of those Savage O/Us.)

I traded it in and got a pump 12 gauge that was so much better for hunting birds, but had a few "episodes" with that on deer.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The concern is that the blast from the muzzle will push against the extended part of the choke and upset the bullet before it clears the end of the extended part of the choke.

I have been known to over think things.

The bullet will be long gone before the blast wave has reflected back. But if you're still worried, ask the gun. Go out to the range and shoot it in that configuration.

 

[Johnm1]

I

The bullet will be long gone before the blast wave has reflected back. But if you're still worried, ask the gun. Go out to the range and shoot it in that configuration.

I didn’t have the time or rounds made up to actually test the rifle with the extended choke yesterday. I was happy to have a bullet weight to work with. I’m convinced that There won’t be a problem but I’ll still test it. I just need to get the rifle to shoot a decent group so can really tell. The 45’s look like they can be worked with.

I don’t disagree Pitcher. I’m just hoping I can make this one work.

 

[SwampWolf]

A hammer that you have to cock before shooting at a flushing bird is not great and combined with a full choke on a 20 gauge, pretty much useless for that.

Actually, just the opposite. By the time the hammer is cocked on a flushing grouse, you'll need as tight a choke as your barrel can muster.

 

[Johnm1]

I had a couple and some were quite heavy to lug around. A hammer that you have to cock before shooting at a flushing bird is not great and combined with a full choke on a 20 gauge, pretty much useless for that. Also, the centerfire/20 gauge weighed a lot to carry around on a day of hunting. Sights on several were terrible, especially front sights.

One had .357 mag over 20 and the barrels were braised at the muzzle, but the "weld" broke, so the rifle wasn't very accurate. That was the heaviest and least-useful one of the bunch. (Never shot any memorable critters with any of those Savage O/Us.)

I traded it in and got a pump 12 gauge that was so much better for hunting birds, but had a few "episodes" with that on deer.

I always thought they would make a great squirrel gun and that is what I bought the first two for. I never considered them for anything that could fly. I really like to squirrel hunt and in the past have tried to carry both a 22 and a shotgun because of varying conditions.

 

[Rubone]

Hmmm, model 24s, orange and white cats, I'm beginning to see a theme here....

 

[Johnm1]

Hmmm, model 24s, orange and white cats, I'm beginning to see a theme here....View attachment 939461

He's my best buddy. Has an uncanny liking for firearms. When ever I have one out he likes to smell the muzzle. He doesn't like loud noises though. We named him little man when he was a kitten because he was the only Male pet in the house and he was so tiny. As an adult we had to put him on a diet to get to his current 17 pounds. The vet is not concerned about his weight. He is just a big cat.

 

[Picher]

Actually, just the opposite. By the time the hammer is cocked on a flushing grouse, you'll need as tight a choke as your barrel can muster.

I never had any luck cocking a shotgun in time to shoot a flushing grouse. Also, most single-shots are choked FULL and usually too tight for grouse in the woods. I have a set of choke reamers for 20-12 gauges and have used them to open full choke guns.

 

[Picher]

Actually, just the opposite. By the time the hammer is cocked on a flushing grouse, you'll need as tight a choke as your barrel can muster.

Maybe along a road, but not in the Maine woods around home. You get about two seconds of view on a flush, at least in the first couple of weeks of the season. Later, maybe three seconds.

Greatest invention for shotgun shooting has been the screw-in choke. I have several, including "skeet", and "bore" which I use at the beginning of the season, especially for woodcock.

 

[Rubone]

He's my best buddy. Has an uncanny liking for firearms. When ever I have one out he likes to smell the muzzle. He doesn't like loud noises though. We named him little man when he was a kitten because he was the only Male pet in the house and he was so tiny. As an adult we had to put him on a diet to get to his current 17 pounds. The vet is not concerned about his weight. He is just a big cat.

"Opie" is so similar. He was tiny when we got him, and is about 16-1/2 lbs now. Ten years old now. He likes the gun safes and when they are opened always has to look inside to make sure all is well. His name is Opie because when he was a baby my wife said he looked like Ron Howard!

 

[SwampWolf]

I never had any luck cocking a shotgun in time to shoot a flushing grouse. Also, most single-shots are choked FULL and usually too tight for grouse in the woods.

You're missing my point; which (facetiously) is, by the time you get the hammer of a shotgun cocked on a flushing grouse (we call them "pats" in Michigan), it will have flown so far (if you could still see it) that the tightest of chokes would be in order. My upland (ruffed grouse and woodcock) twenty gauge double is choked improved cylinder and modified. There are times when the leaves are still on the trees when I sometimes wish both barrels were choked Imp Cyl (the Merkel doesn't have interchangeable chokes).

 

[Picher]

All my shotguns these days are cursed with screw-in chokes. I never seem to have the right choke in mine when I'm hunting and often switch, depending on circumstances. When I had fixed chokes, I never worried about whether the choke was too full or not full enough, just shot, and if too close, pointed toward the edge of the bird a bit.

The only shotgun I ever encountered that was too tight was many years ago. It was an Ithaca (fixed choke) O/U that belonged to my buddy and I witnessed it tearing the wing completely off a flushed woodcock that had to be at least 40 yards away, flying across an open field. It was passed down from his dad and may have been an extra-full trap gun. It either destroyed grouse breasts or missed the birds completely.