Maybe the 9mm isn't very effective!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Actually, the great advantage to the .25ACP is that it can be reloaded into something better than those wimpy factory loads. I've been experimenting with the Hornady 35gr XTP under a compressed load of 16 grains of 2400 using .30-30 cases that have been trimmed, resized, and fireformed. I call it the ".260 Rowland" and plan to test it just as soon as I find a volunteer willing to take my FIE Titan to the range (I'm just too busy, you know... ;) )


More than a few times, I have carried a 9mm pistol with a .25ACP as backup. According to many on this thread, I should be dead already.... :p
 
I also heard from a friend's uncle's niece's pool boy's cat's groomer's babysitter that she saw a cop shoot a bad guy who soaked up 63 rounds of 9mm to the face without so much as flinching, and then killed the cop with a single .22LR shot to the pinkie. Turned him into a cloud of fine red mist and spalled from his knee to his shoulder and back again!
-------------------------------------

I dont doubt it for a second. Its a rifle round chambered in a pistol for Petes Sake !:what:


-------------------------------------
.22 long rifle means the grip of the gun might be bigger....uh, doesn't it?
------------------------------------

Possibly, but modern manufacturing materials have somewhat aleviated this problem. Something else to consider is the potential flak you'll get in the courtroom (should you need to use the weapon) when the DA holds up your gun (hand cannon) in front of a jury.
 
Actually, the great advantage to the .25ACP is that it can be reloaded into something better than those wimpy factory loads. I've been experimenting with the Hornady 35gr XTP under a compressed load of 16 grains of 2400 using .30-30 cases that have been trimmed, resized, and fireformed. I call it the ".260 Rowland" and plan to test it just as soon as I find a volunteer willing to take my FIE Titan to the range (I'm just too busy, you know... )

I wish someone WOULD make a .25ACP +P ball round, since the sturdy Beretta Jetfire could certainly handle it. I guess it's the liability factor, since a potmetal cheap whatever might just explode.

MagSafe .25ACP is actually +P, with a much louder bang and bigger muzzleflash, but, well, it's MagSafe, and in all tests I've seen, utterly ineffective, little metal petals and micro-sized steel pellets that wouldn't even penetrate.

But .25ACP +P with ball, or maybe the Gold Dot or XTP would definitely be interesting. 50gr ball with +P velocity, I'd like to see the ballistics results of that.

Does anyone who sells reloads sell such a thing?
 
Quote:
The typical 9mm shooter on the street uses some really weak ammo.


How do you figure that?

Borachon,

That's just been my experience as a career prosecutor who's specialized in violent crime. Usually its some kind of cheap 115gr fmj or jhp round. The difference in 9mm performance between the cheap 115gr stuff and the better 147gr stuff or the 124-127gr +p and +p+ rounds are dramatic. Its like comparing .380 and .357. This is based on my experience. YMMV.
-David
 
I have to laugh that was very funny.

I also heard from a friend's uncle's niece's pool boy's cat's groomer's babysitter that she saw a cop shoot a bad guy who soaked up 63 rounds of 9mm to the face without so much as flinching, and then killed the cop with a single .22LR shot to the pinkie. Turned him into a cloud of fine red mist and spalled from his knee to his shoulder and back again

:banghead:


Yes, you have to love the humor on this forum. That's a classic.

:)
 
Why 9MM? A practical matter.

I'm an average-Joe kind of guy, lower middle class I guess. A few years ago I read a post in this forum that caught my attention. That was just after I had been robbed and fired at. I'm quoting from memory, so it may not be exact:

"It would be wise for a new shooter to buy the best gun he can afford, in the most powerful caliber he can afford to practice with."

I tried several handguns at that time. I wasn't recoil shy, so I wanted a .357 magnum, a .44 magnum, or a .45 ACP, but I knew I wouldn't be able to afford a lot of ammo in those calibers, as I am medically retired and on a low fixed income. That's the reason I opted for double-action-only 9MM S&W.

Granted, I can't afford to shoot Cor-Bon +P's for everyday practice, but I can afford to shoot a lot of Winchester USA's and finish each session with 10 or 20 Winchester +P's. At the end of the year I shoot the Cor-Bon +P's and buy a box of new ones.

Since that time I have acquired some other handguns, and I've been reloading .38's and .357's for the past year. My aunt gave me a .25 ACP pocket gun. I found a very nice-shooting snub-nose .38 really cheap, and I've practiced with it enough to be able to ring the 50-yard gong all day long and poke 5 holes in a paper plate at 10 yards. Eventually I found someone who wanted a .410 shotgun, so he traded me a Taurus model 65 (.357 magnum) for the shotgun plus some "boot" money. After firing enough rounds in each caliber to pass my paper plate test, I now feel comfortable carrying any one of these guns. Of course I always choose the most potent caliber for the clothing of the season, and I never carry the .25 ACP as a primary because I have the .38 snub.

I carry a handgun everywhere I go, even to church every Sunday. Usually it's the 9MM, but I like them all.
 
Isn't there a video floating around here on the High Road where a trooper or deputy is having a man open a box in the back of his truck, and the man turns on the officer and tries to stab him? In that video I believe the officer shoots him....with his .45....and then watches while the guy walks around, has a conversation with the officer about why the officer shot him, and then fights with him later when the officer decides to take him to the pavement. If I remember correctly, the officer's gun was a .45 (don't quote me though) and that he didn't just "wing" the man.Hopefully someone else knows the video and can post it here.

Anyway my point is that you are talking about a few hundreds of an ounce difference in weight between a .45 slug and 9mm, and a couple of hundred feet per second difference in speed between the two. In my opinion, they are essentially the same in regards to their effectiveness in stopping a threat. Both require shot placement to be effective. In fact, it might be better for a shooter to carry a caliber they are UNCOMFORTABLE with. One that they doubt the effectiveness of. If they did this, they would be FAR more inclined to make sure they aimed their meager weapon to get the most benefit.

People have survived being shot with a .308 and larger rifles. Many of them during wartime. Some of these people have continued to fight for long periods of time after being wounded. Arguing about which bullet is better at the pistol level is ridiculous when we know that even rifles are occasionally ineffective in stopping a threat. None of the pistol calibers are truly effective, truth be known, and arguing about the effectiveness of one under powered pocket slug thrower versus another underpowered slug thrower...although amusing to watch and occasionally participate in...seems pointless.




Thank god!!! Someone who knows what they are talking about.
 
Isn't there a video floating around here on the High Road where a trooper or deputy is having a man open a box in the back of his truck, and the man turns on the officer and tries to stab him? In that video I believe the officer shoots him....with his .45....and then watches while the guy walks around, has a conversation with the officer about why the officer shot him, and then fights with him later when the officer decides to take him to the pavement.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=212620
 
9MM 147 GRAIN

I am new here.My name is Randy Smith.I am just now learning about ballistics. I don't shoot a 9mm pistol but, the Hi Point 995 carbine. I am quite happy with it.I target practice with 115 grain FMJ (for the price) but, for protection I use 147 grain HP's. The 995 is not concealable like a pistol but, easily gives me a range of 100 yards.It does not require a liscene but, carries very well by my seat in my truck. For me this is a poor man's assualt rifle. Ammo is cheap and the weapon was under $200 with a life time garrantee. Do any of you shoot a 9mm in a carbine? If so what about the various grains 115,124, and 147 in a carbine? I look forward to your replies. Take care all, Randy
 
I'm thinking of making my own cartridge too. How about a .30-.06 necked down to a .17? OH yeahhh, that'll be one zippin' er...."spot" of lead. Haven't figured out a good platform to launch it from, though. Back to the ol' drawing board...


Randall, one of the most pleasant 9mm carbines is also one of the cheapest. It ain't much on looks, but the Hi Point 9mm carbine is still going for around $199.00 I think. And it's a pretty reliable, accurate shooting gun. Also, if you don't mind less weight, more plastic, and an even odder look, check out the Kel-tec Sub 2000 in 9mm and .40. Not a bad bang for the buck at all. It's quite accurate, even at 100 yds, fairly cheap (although more expensive than the Hi-Point) and easy to store or work with. Then there's the Ruger 9mm carbine/rifle. Also a good gun, but again, costs more and the bang for the buck isn't quite as good if you ask me. Now in .44 magnum, the same carbine is just awesome. And finally, if you're willing to pay something in the vicinity of $600, there's the really futuristic looking Beretta CX4 storm. Very modular with all kinds of accessories and other additive capabilities. It will take hi-cap Beretta pistol mags (be sure to see what model of Beretta pistol to be specific) and is an excellent shooter based on all I've heard. As for bullet weights, any of them should be fine in most carbines.
 
To add to my last post, the barrel length of 9mm carbines will probably do somewhat different things for the different bullet weights. The lighter ones like 115gr. will increase in their already high velocity, they'll really be zipping along. Since 147gr. rounds tend to penetrate better than the lighter ones (as far as I know, anyway), you can probably count on increased penetration and greater momentum (which affects penetration).
 
There is only one way to settle this once and for all:

Those with 9mm line up on the left. Those with bigger calibers on the right.

Ready.
Aim.
Fire!
 
There is only one way to settle this once and for all:

Those with 9mm line up on the left. Those with bigger calibers on the right.

Ready.
Aim.
Fire!


and we're all dead... wow :what:
 
Drewrw said:
and we're all dead... wow :what:

Man, you don't plan very far ahead, do you?

I figger the first shot from my mighty Jetfire will blow a hole clean through the six guys beside me, a la the Nazis from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (sorry guys, but you know, "take one for the team" and all); I will simply stack the bodies into a hasty fortification and wait for the smoke to clear.
 
9mm handguns have probably killed more people than all other handgun calibers combined, yet there are still some who say it's not adequate for self defense. Huh? :confused:
 
Well. This thread started on another thread from another forum from a guy who works in a morgue. Being that I live in the border (TX-Mexico), I get to read the Mexican newspapers. Local border newspapers usually have the gory section on crimes. In all my adult years, all the news about a BG snuffing another BG has always been same ammo usage either a 380 auto or 9mm. FWIW, I have never felt I am underarmed with a 9mm gun.
 
Its as simple as this...

...9mm is not as powerful as a .45 but it will do the job. Especially in JHP:)
 
Man, you don't plan very far ahead, do you?

I figger the first shot from my mighty Jetfire will blow a hole clean through the six guys beside me, a la the Nazis from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (sorry guys, but you know, "take one for the team" and all); I will simply stack the bodies into a hasty fortification and wait for the smoke to clear.



I could shoot him in the toenail with my .45acp and in the process of the BG flipping 36 times, he would take out everyone else in the "puny 9mm round" row.
 
why do we always have to debate this stuff over and over?!? if the 9mm can't do it, guess my .38's are on the #&^% list too...guess I gotta give them away and get a big ole' .44 Magnum, .480 Ruger, or a .500 S&W...guess the latter would be the best since it goes really fast and makes a big hole (thru the perpetrator, the wall behind him, into the next house, thru several innocent bystanders, out their house, then the bullet takes a left down the end of the block and destroys several vehicles, and finally falls on the ground from exhaustion) :rolleyes:
 
I'll tell you what. Let me unload a magazine from my Glock 19 or 26 with Speer Gold Dot's 124 gr GDHP in anyone's family jewels and then let me read the Doc's report!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top