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Maybe we can get fishermen on our side now. PETA going after fishermen.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Desertdog, Nov 16, 2004.

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  1. Desertdog

    Desertdog Member

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    PETA Campaign Pitches Fish As Smart
    http://news.yahoo.com/newstmpl=story&cid=519&u=/ap/20041116/ap_on_re_us/fish_empathy_3&printer=1

    By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer

    NEW YORK - Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives, animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish — contrary to stereotype — are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of being eaten than a pet dog or cat.

    Called the Fish Empathy Project, the campaign reflects a strategy shift by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals as it challenges a diet component widely viewed as nutritious and uncontroversial.

    "No one would ever put a hook through a dog's or cat's mouth," said Bruce Friedrich, PETA's director of vegan outreach. "Once people start to understand that fish, although they come in different packaging, are just as intelligent, they'll stop eating them."

    The campaign is in its infancy and will face broad skepticism. Major groups such as the American Heart Association (news - web sites) recommend fish as part of a healthy diet; some academics say it is wrong to portray the intelligence and pain sensitivity of fish as comparable to mammals.


    "Fish are very complex organisms that do all sorts of fascinating things," said University of Wyoming neuroscientist James Rose. "But to suggest they know they what's happening to them and worry about it, that's just not the case."


    PETA, headquartered in Norfolk, Va., has campaigned for years against sport fishing, challenging claims by Rose and others that fish caught by anglers do not feel pain. PETA also has joined other critics in decrying the high levels of mercury or other toxins in many fish and the pollution discharged by many fish farms.


    The Empathy Project is a departure in two respects — attempting to depict the standard practices of commercial fishing as cruel and seeking to convince consumers that there are ethical reasons for not eating fish.


    "Fish are so misunderstood because they're so far removed from our daily lives," said Karin Robertson, 24, the Empathy Project manager and daughter of an Indiana fisheries biologist. "They're such interesting, fascinating individuals, yet they're so incredibly abused."


    The project was inspired by several recent scientific studies — widely reported in Britain but little-noticed in the United States — detailing facets of fish intelligence.


    Oxford University researcher Theresa Burt de Perera, for example, reported that the blind Mexican cave fish is able to interpret water pressure changes to construct a detailed mental map of its surroundings.


    "Most people dismiss fish as dimwitted pea-brains. ... Yet this is a great fallacy," wrote University of Edinburgh biologist Culum Brown in the June edition of New Scientist. "In many areas, such as memory, their cognitive powers match or exceed those of 'higher' vertebrates, including non-human primates."


    Chris Glass of the Manomet Center for Conservation Sciences in Massachusetts led another recent study, showing how North Sea haddock developed abilities to avoid trawlers' nets.


    "There's no doubt that fish of all shapes and forms are capable of learning fairly complex tasks," Glass said. "They can learn from their environment and experience."


    Yet Glass declined to endorse the don't-eat-fish appeals.


    "We don't want to be caught between warring factions," he said. "We're interested in helping the fisheries industry do a responsible job."


    To press their argument, PETA activists plan demonstrations starting next month at selected seafood restaurants nationwide. PETA also will urge changes in commercial fishing practices, for example proposing that trawler crews stun fish before cutting them up.


    Friedrich questioned why there is popular support for sparing marine mammals — dolphins and porpoises — yet minimal concern for species like tuna, "whose suffering would warrant felony animal cruelty charges if they were mammals."


    Fish-welfare rules would be a new realm for U.S. commercial fishermen. The National Fisheries Institute, which represents them, has pledged to help sustain fish stocks but its members have never faced cruelty regulations regarding their catch.

    "It's irresponsible to discourage people from eating fish at a time when doctors and dietitians advise eating it twice a week," said institute president John Connelly. "If anything, we should be eating more fish."

    Friedrich acknowledges the difficulty of changing long-held customs, but thinks his project is worthwhile. "We'd rather go too far than not far enough," he said.
     
  2. Mgraff

    Mgraff Member

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    These wacos try this every few years, I think I'll go shoot some carp with my bow, so I'll have something to hand out at thier demonstrations :neener: They have gotten laughed off the street corners here, the 2 times I can remeber any bunny huggers showing up to the protests. The further they move towards the frindge the less real impact they have. I hope they all have a nice salad and go away!!
     
  3. MarkDido

    MarkDido Member

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    To quote "Mad Max" on the John Boy and Billy Show.

    "Iffn God didn't want us to eat animals, why'd he make 'em outta meat!"
     
  4. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I think the name is Wayne Purcelle; he was or maybe still is the head honcho of HSUS. In an interview article in one of the outdoor mags some ten or twelve years ago he stated that after they'd ended hunting they'd go after the fishermen...

    PETA suckers enough people to have the money to start most any anti- campaign they want. Too bad so many people think they're only against the usual cruelty that some people perpetrate...

    Art
     
  5. George S.

    George S. Member

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    When fishing poles are outlawed, only outlaws will have fishing poles.....


    Actually that may have some truth to it. How many time have we sat in a boat with a line in the water and got nothing. :rolleyes:

    PETA is one of those organizations that probably really only exist to bring in money and cause trouble. As much as I hate people who abuse animals. these people and their wacko causes are waaay out in a different universe.

    Besides, if God didn't intend for us to eat animals, why did He make them out of meat??
     
  6. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    What they don't seem to understand is that I don't care if fish feel pain. Don't care if they have mental capacity far greater than ours and are only being held back by their lack of opposable thumbs(at least until they master their telekinetic ability to manipulate objects). What I care about is the fact they are stupid enough to continue to bite that hook. They therefore deserve what they get.
     
  7. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Do these PETA folks have lives? How in the world do they find the time to support these inane causes.

    They can't possibly be being paid for their inanity - can they? Please someone tell me that PETA is a volunteer organization and no one is actually making a living from peddling their drivel?
     
  8. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

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    http://www.wspa.org.uk/index.php?page=598
     
  9. Bobarino

    Bobarino member

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    HA! what a joke. obviously these schmucks have never tasted MY smoked salmon. mmmmmmmm. and the Chums are running now too. i'll be down on the river this weekend.

    Bobby
     
  10. halvey

    halvey Member

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    Watch out! I was doing that one time and this guy went absoutely nutso on me. Actually the same guy twice. Was one of those guys who hugged his dog a little too much. The second time he tried to get his jogging buddies to gang up on me. Thought he was going to swing at me, but he thought the better.
     
  11. Cazach

    Cazach Member

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    Eric Cartman

    I feel compelled to quote South Park:

    Wendy "Dolphins are friendly and intelligent"

    Cartman "Yeah friendly and intelligent on some rye bread with mayonaise!" :neener:

    One of the pearls that I save up for the occassional tofu jockey is this:

    How many vegetarian animals do you know of that have binocular vision? Then you usually have to explain what that means and the concept of ranging in on an object (prey).

    I swear I once heard a carrot scream!
     
  12. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    This is an outrage! I will not stand for this, this, this heresy! Vegetarian sushi!

    Call Indianapolis, call the National Guard, get the paper on line 2! Vegetarian sushi . . . I can't speak right now, tearing up now . . .
     
  13. pinblaster

    pinblaster Member

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    I think plants are also sensitive and intellegent forms of life . I think the PETA folks should stop eating altogether . :evil: :neener:
     
  14. C96

    C96 Member

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    Vegetarians kill things that can neither run nor hide. That's not right.

    I distinctly remember as a child ripping a carrot from the ground and I swear I
    heard it scream. The terror of it all.
     
  15. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Welll.....When you're comparing them with Pitiful PETA People, I reckon fish do come off as smart...

    Art
     
  16. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    Well, I certainly don't know any feshermen :neener:

    Seems to me most PETA type people are college kids or deadbeats. Who else can attend rallys all day?
     
  17. io333

    io333 Member

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    I actually sympathize with PETA to some extent. I'm an occasional vegetarian, though usually a reluctant carnivore. I've never hunted, and probably never will, unless it is absolutely necessary. I probably hug my dog too much. I do think hunting one's own food is more ethical than having someone else do the dirty work. Ramble Ramble.... I guess what I really wanted to say is:

    What you wrote above is an extremely keen observation. Did you come up with that yourself, or is that more or less general knowledge? Can you expand on it?
     
  18. wasrjoe

    wasrjoe Member

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    As far as I know, it's a pretty basic biological fact. If you're going to chase after something, your eyeballs are going to be in front. Isn't this one of the factors paleantologists use to decide whether or not a dinosaur is a predator?
     
  19. buy guns

    buy guns Member

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    :cool:
     
  20. Cazach

    Cazach Member

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    Just general knowledge of predatory vs. prey animals. Also applies to birds.

    Generally prey animals have their eyes spread out or on either side of their head to help alert them to predators. Predators typically have both eyes forward to help range and home in on a target.

    Too much animal planet during my down time.
     
  21. Bruce H

    Bruce H Member

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    Affix a half ounce sinker to your best casting rod. Try for pinpoint accuracy with between the eyes casts. :evil:
     
  22. BenW

    BenW Member

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    To add to that from what I learned back in the Dark Ages, humans became erect so that they could see prey at greater distances over the tallgrass plains in Africa (for those that believe in evolutionary theory). We are also one big, hairless sweat gland so that we can chase prey over great distances. We're not fast, but we're darn persistent. I remember my archeology professor telling us how for part of his thesis, he would run down wild goats in Hawaii. The goats would initially outrun him, but they would finally overheat and run out of endurance, and he got to the point that he could walk up and touch the goat he was chasing (animal cruelty PETA would no doubt disapprove of).
     
  23. Zedicus

    Zedicus Member

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    What's Next? Votes for Oysters??? :rolleyes:
     
  24. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    It's fairly common knowledge in biology. Having two eyes pointing in the same direction is fairly redundant, the only advantage being the ability to determine distance. Most herbavors in contrast have eyes that point outwards in order to scan more of the surrounding areading area in order to avoid predators.

    It's almost enough to make one think that some animals were meant to be eaten by other animals :rolleyes:

    One other thing that is fun to point out is teeth. Nothing gives a better insight into an animals diet more than the construction of its teeth. This is how dinosaurs are generally classified. Grass eaters have big blocky teeth used for grinding grass etc. Carnivors have canines for grabbing/killing prey as well as relatively sharp teeth for tearing meat.

    Furthermore the general construction of an animals lends insight into its eating habits. The most obvious case being the giraffe (sp) with its long neck to reach vegitation in the treetops. Grazing animals are built close to be able to reach easily to the ground to graze. I actually had some fitness nut tell me that people were meant to graze. I asked him if God gave him a pair of kneepads because he sure skipped me. I didnt even discuss sterioscopic vision or the construction of our teeth since he was already confused.

    Long story short, the human body was built to catch, kill, and eat other animals. What makes us special is that we are adapted to do so with tools.
     
  25. publius

    publius Member

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    Carnivore or Herbivore?

    I'm an omnivore.

    Other biological items:

    the digestive system. Cows have 4 stomachs and put their grazings through quite a process. We have hydrochloric acid in our 1 stomach. Guess who is more similar to a wolf in that regard?

    Also, keep in mind that Tofu kills. ;)
     
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