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Mc Chicken - Worker who shot at robber suspended

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sheepdip, Jan 1, 2006.

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  1. sheepdip

    sheepdip Member

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    A McDonald's worker who shot at a woman who robbed the restaurant on State Street in New Albany on Christmas Eve has been suspended from his job because of the incident.
    Maintenance worker Clifton Brown Jr. had taken a 9 mm pistol to work on Dec. 23 and had it with him outside the restaurant as he and another employee took out the trash shortly after the midnight closing, New Albany police said.

    That is when a woman, who was on foot, put a gun to the back of the second worker and then robbed the restaurant through the drive-through window.
    Brown pulled his gun out and ordered the fleeing robber to stop, he told police.
    The woman stopped but raised her own gun, Brown told police. He responded by firing two shots at her before she continued to flee. Police, who described Brown as in his early 50s, said they think both shots missed their target.
    Ron Vanover, owner of the restaurant, said yesterday that guns are prohibited at McDonald's. Vanover said Brown is suspended "pending an investigation."
    Calling it a personnel matter, he would not say what might happen at the end of the investigation.
    "It's just unfortunate that it happened and it's unfortunate that somebody reacted that way," Vanover said of the robbery and the firing of shots. He called Brown's reaction inappropriate.
    "I think that's common sense. Money can be replaced; lives cannot," Vanover said.
    Brown, who could not be reached yesterday, has a permit to carry a gun, New Albany Detective Keith Whitlow said. "We don't have any reason to believe that Mr. Brown has violated any laws," Whitlow said. "It's up to McDonald's to decide" what happens with the employee, he added.
    Whitlow said that he's "not overly enthused about untrained individuals engaging in stuff like that," but that once the robber raised her gun, Brown "was in jeopardy" and had a right to defend himself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2006
  2. robert garner

    robert garner Member

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    Havent been to Macky d's

    since the fired one of their emplyees several yrs ago just for this.
    Wrote Corporate and told them why and that my son would just hafta get used to Wendys! Their response was It wasnt their call it was handled locally.
    Bet if "locally" changed the secret sauce there woulda been ---- to pay .
     
  3. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity Member

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    The food they sell is more dangerous than a 9mm. :barf:
     
  4. jwhisler

    jwhisler Member

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    ???

    "Whitlow said that he's 'not overly enthused about untrained individuals engaging in stuff like that' "


    how is he sure this individual was completely untrained?
     
  5. shermacman

    shermacman Member

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    Let's review:
    We have a gainfully employed man, in his 50's, with a CCW. Among his responsibilities is to take the trash out, at midnight, in a dark parking lot. He has the foresight to protect himself from the inevitable robbery that McDonald's and the franchise owner should have seen coming. His boss "suspends" him for exhibiting common sense. The police "dis" him for being both smart and brave.

    Anyone got fun stuff like email addresses and phone numbers for the boss or the cop?
     
  6. joab

    joab Member

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    I have to believe that things like this are said to prevent couch potato Rambos from playing vigilante and creating situations like the failed gas station robbery attempt in WW and the Dixie Dance Kings.
    Secretly they're saying "good Job" and may even tell the guy that in private.
    At least it makes me feel better to think this way.

    McDonalds has every right to fire the guy for knowingly violating company policy.
    I would like to see some kind of policy somewhere that allows for certified people to carry at the workplace, but other than public buildings I have never seen it addressed except for a total ban.
     
  7. oldschool

    oldschool Member

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    New Albany?

    sheepdip, was this New Albany Indiana?
     
  8. HI express

    HI express Member

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    Massacres at Mickey D's

    How easily they forget that in southern California some massacres have happened at their restaurants where not only the employees but customers were shot and killed by people who chose their place to wantonly massacre people.

    Imagine if they had a CCW person decide to defend themselves when the shooting began?:cuss:
     
  9. TrapdoorBilly

    TrapdoorBilly Member

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    No comment on the cop thing, but your gripe is not with the boss but with corporate. It's a corporate policy, no firearms, the workers boss has no choice in the matter.

    An interesting fact that someone else brought up is that the food they sell is more dangerous than a handgun and overall has probably killed just as many if not more people than the unlawful use of handguns.
     
  10. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    Time for a boycott!!

    If every gun owner stopped going to Micky D's, I bet the policy would change real fast!

    I, for one, am willing to give it a go!!
     
  11. GRB

    GRB member

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    I know that MacDonald's has a right to fire this guy if he broke company policy and it is a firing offense. I agree with that whole heartidly. What I doi not agree with is the sentiment expressed by MacDonald's by having an anti-firearms policy in the first place. MacDonald's and other fast food restaurants are prime targets for hooligan type thieves who are trying to get fast cash to feed a drug habit. Their employees should be able to properly defend themselves in such situations. It is unfortunate that MacDonal's thinks like this from their corporate headquarters all the way down to their local store management; it is unfortunate that anyone from macDonald's management would make as sad a commentary as the following:
    Can you believe that this store manager, this poor misinformed soul, did not think to say that it was unfortunate that a robber targetted his employees placing their live in jeopardy (or if he did then it is unfortunate that the media did not print that part). Can you believe that instead of being proud that an employee would lay his life on the line, he only believes that to be unfortunate! Can you believe he thinks the actions of a law abiding citizen, who was attempting to protect property and life, took inappropriate action! The only person who took truly inappropriate action during the robbery was the robber. Sure the employee should have followed the rules and not had the gun, but he had it and his response to the robbery was not inappropriate in any way nor was it unfortunate. Shame on MacDonald's - there goes that Big Mac right down the drain for me. It will not be the easiest thing to do (nor the hardest), I'll just have to really try to remember, that if this guy gets fired, I will do my best to boycott MacDonald's. As for right now, an email or letter will be sent in to MacDonald's Corporate HQ to inform them that I do not believe they should be firing this guy, they should be giving him a promotion. Maybe some of you will do likewise.

    SHEEPDIP,
    PLEASE POST THE LINK TO THE ARTICLE, SO THAT I CAN GET SOME MORE INFO AS TO EXACTLY WHERE AND WHEN THIS TOOK PLACE. THANKS.

    Happy New Year,
    Glenn B
     
  12. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    MacDonald's has every right to fire employees for defending themselves. They have every right to encourage crime by helping armed robbers succeed in their careers.

    We, on the other hand, have every right to maintain our cardiac health and avoid prions, and this incident should encourage us to do so even at the loss of some 'convenience' (heart attacks aren't really that convenient anyway...)
     
  13. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    They have every right to set their policy, I have every right to call foul and call them a bunch of idiots.

    Give everyone you hire a gun and train them to use it, publicize it. Bet you won't have your stores robbed anymore.
     
  14. The Goose

    The Goose Member

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  15. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Goose: the facts are unclear to me ... did he order the woman robber to "stop" (fleeing after the robbery) or to "stop" (pointing a gun at someone's head) :confused:

    Personally, they can have my employers' money - but pointing a gun at somebody to rob them is deadly force which can be legally met with deadly force.
     
  16. Declaration Day

    Declaration Day Member

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    I'd say that I will boycott McDonald's over this story, but I wised up and stopped eating that garbage 15 years ago.
     
  17. rallyhound

    rallyhound Member

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    It sure would be easier to debate these types of incidents if we could count on the press to accuratejy report these types of stories.
    Is getting fired from Mcdonalds really something to get upset about?
    He can probably get a security job now for twice the pay.
     
  18. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    I was just in S. Florida. A woman was robbed in a Wal-Mart parking lot. She handed over the money, and the thief stabbed her in the chest anyway.

    WHY do people think that cooperating and being a Good Victim will save your life from people who get off on a power rush by using violence against their victims?
     
  19. AF_INT1N0

    AF_INT1N0 Member

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    [/Flamesuit] Maybe if more people reacted in this manner the we wouldn't need to pay for so darn many police officers.
    Society, specifically American Society was designed to police itself. The fact that it no longer does is the reason we have so much crime. Why is it that pro-gun states have less crime (even in the cities)? Because people with guns are hard to rob.
    Everytime you hear about someone foiling a robbery, the next immediate sentence from the press is "We don't need any vigilantes running around foiling crimes"

    IMHO we need (many) more people doing this. Think of how many people would be saved if it were more hazzardous to your health to rob MC D's than to eat there.
    [/Flame suit]
     
  20. George S.

    George S. Member

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    Guess I agree with The Goose in a way here. Had Brown been in fear for his life, then he had every right in the world to do whatever it took to protect himself. And when the woman directly threatened the co-worker, he could have used his pistol to protect him too (assuming state laws allow for this).

    Once the robber began to flee, I would think the threat was over save for her "raising" her gun at Brown. If he thought his life was in danger at that moment, he was, IMHO, clearly justified in shooting at her. I don't see the rounds missing as an issue. Think of it this way; somebody just pointed a gun at you after sticking it in somebody elses back. Are you going to be as steady and as calm as a nice sunny day at the range?? I would be scared shyteless! I would have to think that sub-moa shooting right then would not be at the top of the old thought process. Maybe finding clean underwear, but not looking for a 10-ring.

    As far as the robbery itself, I don't see where an McD's employee would be under any obligation to protect the company funds. That's the managers job and he would probably be under orders to turn over the money to an armed robber so as to avoid the potential for harm. I would think that Brown probably got some sort of information when he was hired as to the "rules". If that included not being allowed to carry a weapon, then he either should have not taken the job or understood the consequences. He got fired for breaking the rules.
     
  21. Hot brass

    Hot brass Member

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    No more Mickey D`s for me maw.
     
  22. IdahoFarmer

    IdahoFarmer Member

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    There is rarely enough information available in media reports to effectively draw conclusions. However, I believe there are two genereal possibilitiies here.

    1) If Brown felt he or the other employee were in continued imminent danger, then of course he had a right to draw his firearm.

    2) If the imminent danger had ceased, that is where the question arises. It is a question of both "rights" and "judgement".

    RIGHTS
    Its my personal belief that we each have the "right" to stop crime including the appropriate use of a firearm. I believe one should adopt the same standards in the use of a firearm as law enforcement. (Draw when imminent danger is possible to persuade the possible source of imminent danger to comply, fire only if imminent life threatening danger presents itself and only if you are not jeopardizing innocents.)

    JUDGEMENT
    As a civilian we also need to be aware of the secondary risks and balance them with the situation at hand.

    I found this interesting article on Citizen's Arrest:
    http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm


    IdahoFarmer
     
  23. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    In the minds of most of the sheeple, "trained" means "wears badge and gets pay check from city or state".


    Brown could be a retired former Navy Seal, or spend a week every summer at Thunder Ranch, but since he's not a cop he's "untrained" :rolleyes:
     
  24. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    Since I am one of those old fashioned guys that thinks "gun control" means hitting your target, I think the guy should be fired. Wild shooting leaves the company wide open for lawsuits.
     
  25. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Member

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    I don't know about your state, but Texas law is clear on this. You are responsible for where your rounds go.

    If you shoot a bystander then you have committed a crime, and you will likely be prosecuted for it. This is the case even if you really are defending your life (unlike this guy if the news report is accurate).

    I guess the point is that the loved ones of the innocent you shoot won't think it's OK just because you were in danger when you killed their family member.

    Know where you are shooting and be cognizant of what is behind your target.

    Besides, if the robber was fleeing when the guy drew his gun then the threat was over. At that point he should have dialed 911 and counted himself lucky that no one did get hurt.

    ChickenHawk
     
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