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Medium-bore for light game?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by labnoti, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    The .300 H&H was for sure, never heard mention of the .375, tho If they shoot like my Abolt id say its capable.
    Admittedly, I skipped clean over the 8mms, .338s, and .35s, when I built my medium bore, and rarely use .308s, because i LIKE my 7mms and there isnt anything I do that the bigger bullets do better, flatter, or faster from a comparably sized cartridge/gun. WHEN we are talking about what I do....
    At the same time, I like soft bullets and have seen an advantage when going up in cal/weight when using them....just for me going all the way to .375 felt right.
     
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  2. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    But there's also not an animal in the lower 48 that I would shy away from with a properly loaded .30-06. What does the extra thirty thousandths of an inch in bullet diameter buy me that makes up for the cost in recoil and massive decrease in availability? There's enough noise and variables in the data associated with any given shot that I'd contend that the tiny increase in pre-expansion wound path makes absolutely no repeatable difference in the game of hunting medium sized or thin skinned animals.

    I wouldn't argue that medium bores won't work, of course they will, I would however say that in the vast majority of situations, the juice isn't worth the squeeze over the standard options.

    I would never tell someone they shouldn't use a .338 WM or a .375 H&H for elk, but there's no way I'd personally choose one of those over something like a .30-06 or 7mm RM.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  3. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    My favorite hunting rifle is a 30-06 but I want to make the point that a 338-06 is just as user friendly as a 30-06 and really fun to use. On Monday I went to the range to get ready for the upcoming Oklahoma deer rifle season. I fired four rounds at a 200 meter target (218 yards) sitting on the ground and using only a single shooting stick to steady the rifle. This is the way I hunt and at the time the temperature was 47 degrees. I was wearing a heavy coat and using light acrylic gloves. I have been using a shooting stick for about 20 years and have gotten good enough that I use this method to sight in my rifles. The rifle is a pre 64 model 70 with a Leupold European scope and the rifle as shown weighs 8 pounds 7 ounces. IMG_4171.JPG IMG_4172.JPG IMG_4173.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  4. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    That sir is some world class shooting! I can’t even come close to shooting that tight off of seated sticks.

    Nice looking Pre 64 as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  5. Legionnaire
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    ^^ Outstanding shooting!
     
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  6. Aletheia

    Aletheia Member

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    "Use enough gun" is good advice. Using way more gun than "enough" just doesn't seem worth it to me any more.
     
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  7. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    That is how I sight my rifles in as well. I’ve gotten quite good off sticks. I actually shoot better off sticks than my sled. And that translates into better shots on game because I typically use sticks while rifle hunting.
     
  8. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Wise man!
     
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  9. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    In the context of dangerous game, it's the preferred way t have your PH shoot your trophy for you.

    Some people, that's their thing :D
     
  10. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    It's a laugh seeing you trumpet one of the few .5+ BC .338 bullets at 2700 ft/s when it's easy to get a 0.6 BC bullet with better terminal behavior going 3250 in a 7mag. it's really not close. Not even vaguely. I know you want to pretend ti is, but physics are physics and the 7mm mags stomp the .338s for non-dangerous game. That's just the way it is. In order to get similar performance out of a .338, you'd need at least a Lapua case, with the attendant increase in recoil and rifle size, and still not be better off.
     
  11. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    It would have been a short run as the .300 H&H was a far better target round, and came shortly after the ,375. Objectively neither is a good accuracy round - belted with the associated headspace problems, too shallow a shoulder and long resulting in an inevitably more flexible action. That's pretty much the opposite of accurate. There was however an era where simply having more case capacity was an advantage for long range.
     
  12. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    overkill is underrated
     
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  13. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    It shows too. I could stand to practice more field position with my hunting rifles.
     
  14. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Posted by @Varminterror
    .338” 230 ELD-x .616G1
    .338” 250 Matchking .587G1
    .338” 300 Matchking .768G1
    .338” 300 Hybrid .822G1

    Those seem like pretty good numbers to me. But I’m not a physicist. And remember, @H&Hhunter does hunt dangerous game. The 7Mag is a great round. But if the 7Mag does better on non-dangerous game, why does it then not perform better on dangerous game? SD is equal no matter the medium. Momentum however, THAT translates when heavy bone is involved.
     
  15. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    Not a single one of those bullets is really suitable for hunting big game. All four are basically frangible at close range.

    Nice try though - if we use 7mm match bullet, the 7mm wins there too.
     
  16. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    No one is talking about dangerous game. You made a absolutely false comment about the 375 having inferior terminal performance. Now you are trying to play it off with a joke.

    We were talking about the use of medium bore chamberings on light to medium game. You do not like medium bore rifles or chamberings. That's fine. But to say good bullets are not available or that they lack in terminal performance is simply false. And honestly laughable.

    7mm works for you. Outstanding. By all means, use it. I'll stick with my over recoiling, under performing 375 H&H. If I get a deer or two in the next couple of weeks I'll be sure to post my real world, first hand experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  17. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    .270 Win/ 150 gr.
    / \
    6.5x55/ 140 gr. 9.3x62/ 285 gr.



    GR
     
  18. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    It’s funny when folks make ignorant pseudoscientific statements, completely neglecting the fact anyone with internet connection - as any of us reading this would - can prove your sentiment false in a matter of minutes.

    7mm 175 ELD-x .695G1
    .338” 270 ELD-x .757G1

    7mm 183 SMK .707G1
    .338” 300 SMK .768G1

    7mm 184 Hybrid .695G1
    .338” 300 Hybrid .822G1

    The 7RM and 338wm share a case, so when you shrink the bullet diameter and weight, you gain speed. No magic there. If Kinetic Energy killed, that would matter, but it doesn’t.

    Also, a 7 Rem mag isn’t getting ANY of these big 175grn+ pills up to 3250, not in any remote reality. In general, I’ve been able to push a 160-180 class bullet in 7 RM to about 100-150fps faster than a 230-250 class bullet in the 338WM, and we’re within a couple clicks out to 600 yards, an absolutely irrelevant differentiation. However, when we consider impact momentum, we have a far better explication of what happens in the real world, and understand why, empirically, we’ve seen the 338 be a better game stopper than the 7. Around 40% more bullet weight at about 90% of the velocity, pretty simple math. THAT is why 338wm is so effective on true big game like bison and Eland, and the 7RM is considered out of it’s class here.
     
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  19. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    What loads are those? Ive run some stupid hot round thru my 7mag, but never got that. It took my STW to get a .6 over 3200 (and OMG! Thats a goat popper).
     
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  20. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually bob I showed you five (5). I guess the real deal here is how many elk have you personally killed with the 7 mag? If it works for you stick with it. The 7 Mag isn't the right round for my style of elk hunting therefore I don't use it.

    What Verminterror said is 100% correct.

    Do you even hunt? Serious question I've not noticed that you post many hunting stories.
     
  21. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    Just a bunch of Retumbo and a 155gr Edge TLR. You could probably use H1000 too, but I've never tried.
     
  22. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    Bullets with worse BCs driven hundreds of ft/s slower are somehow just the same? They're not. If you actually want to do a comparison, post your elk load and we'll compare it to the best 7mag load and see how they stack up in terms of effective engagement range.

    And the 7mag works exceptional for elk from the muzzle to as far as it can reach which is notably farther than the .338 (or .375). I've hunted elk every year since I was a kid, and used a 7mm magnums all but a few years. There's no question it works. It was designed to hunt elk. it does exactly what it was designed to do.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    270 Gr Barnes Tsx over 72.5gs of IMR 4895. Yup 7mm shoots flatter and faster.
     
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  24. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    I'll have to try those, best I could do was a 162 at 3100 and cases were one and done usually.
     
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  25. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Bob

    The 7 mag is the most effective round ever designed in the history of mankind. Only the most special hunters shoot it. Go forth and prosper!
     
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