Medium bore rifles for North America

[H&Hhunter]

For a dedicated big game, medium bore with large North American animals in mind such as elk, moose, bison, big bears and general tough stuff like that I believe that the king of the heap is the .338 Win Mag. The reason IMO that the .338 WM is at the top is due not so much to it's ballistics, though they are impressive. It is because of the versatility that the .338 round offers and the package (rifles) that it it's available in.

The .338 is standard length so you don't need a magnum length action to house it. You can get just about everything you need out of a .338WM ballistically with a 24" or even a 22" barrel. This makes the availability of a lighter more compact mountain rifle a very real possibility. The .338 offers a huge variety of bullet weights and shapes making it one of the most versatile rounds available. There is nothing in North America that I wouldn't feel confident hunting with a .338. In fact with the correct bullet choice there are darn few animals I would not hunt with total confidence world wide with the good old .338 WM.

The number two pick for a heavy duty medium rifle in North America IMO is the .375H&H. The .375 takes second in North America for two reasons. One it's tougher to make a light weight .375H&H, it can be done but it's more of a compromise. The .338WM has a slight range advantage over the .375H&H but in real world terms it isn't enough to make a difference with proper ranging. The .338WM primarily gains it's range advantage over the .375H&H with more aerodynamic bullet choices. From a world wide stand point especially with African DG in mind the .375H&H becomes the uncontested all around versatility king of the medium bore but we are talking North America only here.

BTW you can substitute .375 Ruger for either of the above and in all reality it may very well be the best most versatile medium bore cartridge ever designed. It has all of the advantages of the .338WM with all of the capability of the .375H&H. I just wish Ruger would or SOMEBODY would build a 22" or 23" barrel, light(ish) weight mt rifle in .375 Ruger.

After those two (three I guess) comes everything else. There are better choice for a purpose built long range medium such as the .340 weatherby, .338 RUM and the .338 Lapua or throw in your favorite thunder boomer in .325(8MM), .358, .375. The problem with all of those choices is that they are purpose built long range rifles and as such require a long barrel on a heavy gun which makes them almost useless at close quarters on fast moving game if they've got proper long range glass on them.

Then we have the .35 Whelen,.358, .348 .405 various stuff like that. The problem with those is that they are pretty limited in range capability, they are capable close quarter guns no doubt, but limited in overall versatility. The reason for my two picks is that they are available in very useful rifles in regards to carry-ability and shoot-ability, given the proper glass they are able to get the job done from up close in your face in thick cover on heavy dangerous animals all the way out to about as far as you should be shooting at game under normal circumstances, that in my mind being out to about 400 may be 450 yards on a good day with good conditions.

I see so many people now days concentrating on a dedicated long range game gun. And that's cool, I am interested in the skills and technology to make those shots happen. But my experience in the field always brings me back to having a versatile rig that is capable of doing anything from a snap shot in thick cover to a cross canyon long range shot when needed. The ability and the tools that provide that combination have never let me down.

Just my random thought for a Tuesday morning in June.....

 

[Robert]

I love my 375, thank you for pushing me in that direction. It is capable of accuracy I never would have thought possible from a medium bore rifle. The only thing I want to change is a McMillan stock, and practice enough to be able to make long range shots from field positions.

 

[Art Eatman]

Good cartridges, for sure. The thing about them and big critters such as the Great Big Bears is that there is the issue of stopping vs. just-hunting. IMO, if you could guarantee the sequence of hunt for, find, shoot, kill, lesser-power cartridges are known to suffice. However, if the situation goes all to garbage, stopping becomes the top priority.

 

[Geno]

Cool thread, and I appreciate your reflections, especially based on your experiences, H&H. I have owned both, and hunted with the .375 H&H.

I read a great article in Peterson's Hunting back in about 1986 or 1987, comparing and contrasting the .338 WM and the .375 H&H. That is when I learned that the .338 actually has greater long-range energy, say 400 to 500 yards, than the .375 due to the superior ballistic coefficient. Since I had just started to reload in that year, it was interesting learning for me.

Some day, I may be able to save up enough to get an M70 Safari in .375 H&H. With a daughter in pre-med, it may well take me some time. Until then, I get to read threads like this one, and dream. Thanks to all for the input. Truly interesting topic.

Geno

 

[H&Hhunter]

The major difference between the .338WM and the .375H&H is that the .338WM was designed as an all purpose rifle with the North American hunter in mind in 1958. The .375H&H was designed as an all purpose rifle with the African/Indian colonial hunter in mind in 1912, 102 years ago.

Times have changed but two things remain. Both of these cartridges remain extremely useful and versatile rounds the world over. If I was going to go on a worldwide one rifle hunt "O" rama, something like the following. I'd start here in Colorado on mule deer and elk hunt then fly to Alaska and do a moose and brown bear hunt maybe even a Dall Sheep or caribou after a sucessful hunt up north I'd set my sights on the Southern Hemisphere. I'd head to Northern Australia where I'd do some feral water buffalo hunting and swat some hogs and maybe stop off in New Zealand for a quick stag and a tahr. Of course we couldn't go home until putting the African continent on the map. First would be South Africa or Namibia for some general plains game including an eland and giraffe. So far I'd be perfectly happy with either a .338 with quality 250 gr bullets or a .375 with either 270 or 300 gr bullets. After doing my plains game in South Africa I'd head up to Tanzania for a bit of dangerous game hunting for buffalo and elephant. This is the only place where the .338 becomes an issue as many places have a .375H&H minimum caliber for DG hunting. Although the regulations are relaxing in that department in favor of more sensible bullet construction and FPE based regs.

So when I get this one rifle hunt put together I'll grab one of my .375H&H's and never look back. If all I had was a .338 I'd happily take it and hunt all the way to Tanzania where I'd bribe the proper officials and hunt with my .338 anyway with 300 gr Woodleigh Weldcore soft points and solids and kill stuff really really dead.

 

[Charles S]

Great post!!!! I always enjoy your thoughts! I do not currently own a 338. It is a hole I would like to fill.... Currently my do all rifle is a 30-06. I have two different 300s, but most of the time I reach for the 30-06. Here in the south I use a 308 most with a 270 being a close second. Again, good info.

 

[Jim Watson]

It reminds me of an item by John Taylor. He described a tycoon who hunted the world over. A busy man, he had to take his hunts as he got the spare time, so he was always ready to go. Just pick up his lightweight .375, a getaway bag, and call for a chartered airplane.

 

[MCMXI]

The reason IMO that the .338 WM is at the top is due not so much to it's ballistics, though they are impressive. It is because of the versatility that the .338 round offers and the package (rifles) that it it's available in.

Excellent post!! You almost gave me a reason to buy another Kimber Montana but since I have a Talkeetna in .375 H&H which has a shorter barrel I think I'll hold out for a Caprivi in .458 Lott. I don't want to hijack the thread but would .375H&H be your choice for elk in Montana? I'm going on a 5-day elk/deer hunt in central MT this year and was thinking .375 H&H or .300 WSM.

 

[H&Hhunter]

1858,
Yes the .375 would be MY choice. I've killed numerous elk with my .375 and for the reasons mentioned above I like it way better than a .300 mag on elk. It is a more versatile elk rifle than the .300. Now before the .300 mafia try's to crucify me I did NOT say the .300 mags aren't good elk rifles. They are but they don't fill the .375s shoes in some very critical areas.

 

[MCMXI]

H&Hhunter, thanks for the help. I started a new thread to discuss the use of .375 H&H on deer.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, nothin' in Texas needs a .338 aside from exotics like Nilgai which I'll probably never hunt. If I lived in Alaska.....but I don't.

 

[H&Hhunter]

.338 or the .375 makes an awful handy brush thumper or open country long range hog rifle. They definitely are not overkill especially on big mature hogs. That being said I've never had any trouble killing big hogs with a .308 class rifle either but you need to mind your shot angle a bit more on the big ones. Smaller hogs like under 200 lbs it doesn't really matter.

 

[Robert]

Now hog hunting with my 375 would be a heck of a lot of fun!

 

[jmr40]

There is a huge difference between what someone "WANTS" to hunt with and what they "NEED" to get the job done. With that said I don't care much what anyone "WANTS" to hunt with. Truth is everything from 308 up will cleanly take everything in North America. If someone just "WANTS" to use something larger, then go for it. Pick the one that makes you happy, use good bullets and go hunting.

But to hint that a 338, let alone a 375 is "NEEDED" for game such as elk, moose or bear is absurd. Over the last 100 years I'd wager that for every elk taken with a 338 or 375 there have been 10's of thousands taken with 30-06 and 308 class chamberings. The 7mm and 300 mags do the same thing, just at slightly extended ranges. If there were any shortcomings with those rounds we'd know by now.

I can see a place for the 375. But I don't see anything 33 caliber being more than marginally better than a comparable 30 caliber. In fact I've seen more than one test showing heavy 30 cal bullets outperformed 33 caliber loadings. If a heavy loaded 30 cal isn't enough, the next step up is one of the 375's.

 

[H&Hhunter]

jmr,

But to hint that a 338, let alone a 375 is "NEEDED" for game such as elk, moose or bear is absurd.

Considering how popular the .338 and the .375 are in Alaska for use on bear, moose and elk I have to think that it is somewhat less than "absurd" to use one. The simple fact of the matter is given the choice what rifle would you rather be carrying in thick alder brush in Alaska knowing that there was a big brownie in there waiting for you?

Alaska is where I was introduced to the .375H&H and I was skeptical being a lower 48 guy and not really understanding the real world advantages of the caliber. After having hunted with a .375H&H it didn't take long for me to get it though.

I just read where Phil Shoemaker commented that the .375 Ruger is fast becoming the most desirable guide rifle in the state of Alaska. I wonder what's wrong with those guys? Absurdity must be endemic up there!

 

[MCMXI]

Truth is everything from 308 up will cleanly take everything in North America. If someone just "WANTS" to use something larger, then go for it. Pick the one that makes you happy, use good bullets and go hunting.

Surely the range plays into this as well. I doubt that a .308 Win is the best choice on a big bull elk at 300 yards. You might say that you can get closer but that's not always an option out here in MT. Last year, a coworker and his brother found the .300 Win Mag marginal at best on a bull elk at 300 yards. My coworker was carrying his .308 Win Montana at the time but won't be using that rifle this year.

 

[MCgunner]

.338 or the .375 makes an awful handy brush thumper or open country long range hog rifle. They definitely are not overkill especially on big mature hogs. That being said I've never had any trouble killing big hogs with a .308 class rifle either but you need to mind your shot angle a bit more on the big ones. Smaller hogs like under 200 lbs it doesn't really matter.

Most of the hogs i've killed were trapped, shot with a pistol, but have shot a few with the .308, one with a 7mm Remington Magnum, and a couple with a .30-30 pistol and a .357 magnum revolver. I've got one showing up in broad daylight the other day on my game cam. If he keeps that up, I might add a .50 caliber 385 grain Minie to the list. He's not 200 lbs, but I've yet to pop a hog with black powder. I chronoed 90 grains of 3F 777/385 grain Honady great plains at 1800 fps. Should do the trick, I'd think. It's basically a 50-90 sharps without the brass.

 

[MCgunner]

I just read where Phil Shoemaker commented that the .375 Ruger is fast becoming the most desirable guide rifle in the state of Alaska. I wonder what's wrong with those guys? Absurdity must be endemic up there!

Well, Browning makes a BLR in .325 WSM. I think if I lived in Alaska....but I don't. Seriously, though, that rifle sounds real tasty. BLRs have SUPER smooth actions.

 

[H&Hhunter]

The .325 is knocking on the door of a .338.