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Mental illness and owning firearms

Discussion in 'Legal' started by whm1974, Jan 27, 2013.

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  1. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    Hello guys I haven't been on this forum for years since I sold the guns I had about five years ago.

    I filed for disabilty due to depression three years ago and I'm waiting for my benefits.

    Awhile back my roommate told me that when once I get my benefits I can no longer own a firearm. Any truth to this?
     
  2. Ash

    Ash Member

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    It is possible. Depression is a mental illness.
     
  3. LiENUS

    LiENUS Member

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    Unless theres a different local law or they pass a new federal law the ATF has this to say on it
    (source: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/i/atf-i-3310-4.pdf )
    That might fall under lacks mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs but if you're living alone and still feeding yourself it seems like that would be a stretch you really would need to talk to an attorney to have a better idea though. The last person I knew that went on disability had to have an attorney in the first place to get disability benefits, do you have one assisting you now? you might need to be asking him rather than asking us here.
     
  4. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    I'll ask him next time I see him. However I live in subdise housing, so I may not be allow to have firearms in my apartment.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    "Ajudicated" is the operative word. If you haven't been officially declared by a court to be one of the things listed above, then you may answer "NO" on that section of the 4473.
     
  6. pendennis

    pendennis Member

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    You really need to contact an attorney concerning this. If you already have an attorney as a result of applying for SSI, he should be able to tell you, or refer you to an attorney who has expertise in this area.
     
  7. NaturalDefensiveRights

    NaturalDefensiveRights member

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    In your case, it probably depends on whether you're a danger to yourself or others. That would largely be determined by what you've said on the matter. Obviously you have the mental capacity to be on this forum and take care of your own affairs.

    You have to keep in the mind, that in the future, any mental conditions could bar someone from owning firearms, no matter how slight. The gun grabbers did it with all non-violent felons (with the 1960 NRA's help) - they'll have no qualms about doing it to other classes of people as well.

    And then,
    "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and, we shall have..........peace." - Emperor Palpatine.
     
  8. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    Thanks guys I'll ask my lawyer next time I see him.
     
  9. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Sam1911,

    Well at least you tried to explain it.

    Social Security Disability benefits deal with the persons ability to work not their mental competency nor is the panel of medical doctors that reviews the case a court of law.
     
  10. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    But if Social Security sends the monthly check to (in care of, etc.) a third party Representative Payee, the assumption is often made that the person with a disability is incompetent and can't take care of their daily business.

    "Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs;"

    Otoh, some folks are physically unable to get to the bank, write checks, etc. and need a Representative Payee to do the leg work for them. They should still be able to own firearms.

    John
     
  11. Coop45

    Coop45 Member

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    A person is
    “adjudicated as a mental defective”
    if a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority has made
    a determination that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, mental illness, incompetency, condition,
    or disease:
    Is a danger to himself or to others;
    Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs;
    Is found insane by a court in a criminal case;
    or
    Is found incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility, pursuant to articles
    50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. §§ 850a, 876b.


    Correct answer
     
  12. Coop45

    Coop45 Member

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  13. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    Just because I know too much about the process... :)

    "panel of medical doctors that reviews the case"

    There is no panel of doctors. The 'disability determination services' offices in each state are contracted by Social Security to make the medical determinations. The college grads they hire are state employees, making state wages, but working under SSA directions and regulations. Sure, they have a consulting M.D. or two, but there's no panel of doctors.

    Fwiw, if you ever take a case to the hearing level, take a lawyer with you because the hearing officer is a lawyer under contract, not a doctor.
     
  14. splattergun

    splattergun Member

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    Have you been 'adjudicated' mentally ill or defective? are you a danger to yourself or another person? Be honest with yourself. Please.
    If you have suicidal or homicidal thoughts, please do yourself a favor, set aside your wish to own firearms.

    If, however, your mind is well, check with your doctor and your attorney first, before proceeding.

    And, if you are well, welcome back.
     
  15. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    I'll keep that in mind about having a payee

    No and No. I had a IL FOID card. I had sold my guns a few years before it exspired, so I didn't renew it.

    It's not so much owning firearms but legally being able to shoot and handle them at gun ranges.
     
  16. JFtheGR8

    JFtheGR8 Member

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    Excellent advice. Nobody knows what's going through your mind but you. If you feel that you wouldn't be able to trust yourself at your absolute lowest point then keep the firearms out of your home. I watched my dad battle depression and it was very heart breaking. He's doing better now but it's an ongoing battle. Good luck to you and God bless my friend.


    Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android
     
  17. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    Yes it is. Even if I had a FOID and the money I'm not planning on buying any firearms soon, I just want to be able to own them in the future.

    Sorry to hear about your dad. Glad he is better now.
     
  18. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    that's the kicker, it's alot in HOW they write it up
    AND folks, remember that one of Obama's fixes is to require all state and federal entities to forward lists to the FBI NICS database. Much of the question is going to be what/who makes that list. It's entirely foreseeable that they just forward entire categories.
     
  19. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Thanks for the clarification JohnBT,

    As I understand the process all of the entire decision making is done by Administrative Law Judges whom do not have any medical training and are not required to consult any medical professionals when making their decision. Their entire decision is based on which lawyers puts on the best dog and pony show.

    Something I am curious about. According to the information I have 90% of the claims are denied by the State Determination Services and of that number only 18% appeal to the Administrative Judge Level. If the claim is denied again it may be appealed to the Appeals Council and then again to Federal Court where 80% of the claims are approved.

    This entire process strongly suggest that the actual medical condition of the person has nothing to do with the determinatoin until it reaches Federal Court and is designed to force the person to drop his/her claim due to lack of money to live on while pursing the appeals.

    My question is do have have any information on what % of claims are approved at the Administrative Judge Level and by the Appeals Council?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  20. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    That's depends. Most of the time I have a total lack of energy to do anything. I also have major hearing loss and poor eyesight.
     
  21. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    " According to the information I have 90% of the claims are denied by the State Determination Services and of that number only 18% appeal to the Administrative Judge Level."

    Those numbers aren't accurate. Bear in mind that the biggest reason for being denied (other than not being sick enough to meet the Listings) seems to be either bad info or a complete lack of medical info. I've advised folks for over 30 years to get their own medical record copies. Think about it, if you let SSA send releases of information, you are putting your case in the hands of a minimum wage copy clerk at the doctor's office. SSA requires specific info with hard data, lab results, etc. A note from a doctor that you're "disabled" won't do at all.

    www.ssdfacts.com and click on a state for the stats.

    For Virginia the initial approval rate was 35.6%.
    The Reconsideration/first appeal rate was 17.2%.
    (The CDR number listed is for folks with conditions that might improve, so they're re-evaluated every few years. 79.2% kept getting benefits.)

    The approval number for Hearings in Virginia was 52.1%. Of course, it will take at least a year to even get scheduled after you lose all of the earlier appeals - they're backed up.

    The Hearing is the first time an Administrative Law Judge (contract lawyer) will be involved.

    The Initial determination is made by a Determiner at the state level.
    The first appeal is called the Reconsideration and is made by a more experienced Determiner at the state level.
    And it goes on from there.
     
  22. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Look at it this way. Is everyone in this nation who uses Prozac now ineligible to own a gun?
     
  23. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    As to the op, if you're to mentally ill to work, you're not safe to be trusted with a firearm.

    Baloney!!!

    There are many types of mental illness most of which are manageable with counseling and medication.

    There are several reasons someone with mental illness may not be able to work a regular job outside the home. Maybe the individual is unable to handle working a high stress job, aggressive supervisors or be able to perform certain tasks. Or maybe the type of work a mentally ill person can perform isn't available in his/her area or pays too poorly to live on.

    Just because a person doesn't have a job outside the home doesn't mean they don't "work". Managing a household such as doing laundry, cleaning the house, fixing meals, taking care of the kids, paying bills is work unless you are a alpha male.

    Sadly our society which values having more possesssions and lifestyles better than your neighbor has lost sight of what is really important; such as spending time with your family, teaching family values, respect and tolerance for your neighbors, caring for the elderly such as your parents, helping others who through no fault of their own have difficulty meeting your expectations.

    When you paint with a broad brush you usually show your ignorance on the topic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  24. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    Good point. I'll keep that in mind.

    Good question. Some of these meds are taken for sleep disorders among other reasons besides mental illness.
     
  25. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    You are correct. If I had kids for example I would welcome this time I have to spend with them, even if I don't have the energy to do much.
     
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