Metal Frame Pistols Becoming Obsolete???

[millertyme]

Actually, polymer framed pistols are on the short endangered list in my collection.

Yeah, that's true I guess. I think there just isn't any in my price range lol. I don't want a clone and I cant afford a Beretta, so I guess I'm SOL.

I know they're getting harder to come by, but the S&W 59xx LEO trade-ins can be found for $300-$325. I've never seen a LEO Beretta that cheap. Check Aim Surplus or Summit Gun Broker from time to time and you'll find one. If not, and this is hardly a step down in quality, you can still get CZ82's for around $200.

 

[towboat_er]

The CZ82 is a true pleasure to shoot. I highly recommend them.

 

[wow6599]

The Beretta is going to serve longer than the M1911A1

Only 48 more years to see if you're right.......

 

[Remo223]

No: If you included all the models and calibers of Colt, S&W, CZ, BHP, Sig, Kimber, + all the 45ACP manufacturers, etc; the list would be too long to post.
Steel Pistols
Full Sized Framed Pick-ups
Cast Iron V-8s
Harley's
We need a thread to add to this list.

stetson hat
justin boots
zippo lighter
rollex watch
underwood typewriter
loveless knife
Irving schott leather jacket
ray ban sunglasses
gibson guitar
levi's blue jeans

AND A SOLID STAINLESS SMITH&WESSON

just don't get any better.

 

[788Ham]

TheSigmaEnigma,

SOL? you mean Sort Of Lucky? LOL Ain't heard that in awhile!

 

[GLOOB]

Nope. Plastic will never replace metal. They work differently. Plastic is way too elastic to make a tight slide/frame fit. If you tried, the slide would bind. Metal frames will always be the choice for any type of long range accuracy.

 

[jmr40]

If the Beretta is going to be in service longer than the 1911 few of us will be around long enough to find out. The 1911 is still in service with some military units and has never been completely phased out. If the 1911 were pulled from miitary service today the Beretta will have to still be in service in the year 2086 to beat the 1911.

 

[451 Detonics]

The Beretta is going to serve longer than the M1911A1.

I somehow doubt that given the 1911's number of years in service.

 

[Remo223]

You guys know darn well the 1911's reign ended the day they first issued the M9. That would be 1985. The 1911A1 was adopted in 1924, for a total of 61 years service. The M9 has been in service for 26 years. Therefore the M9 needs 35 more years to tie.

I personally don't think the M9 will make it. I think the M&P will replace it in the next ten years, but that's just a hunch. But lets not fib about the years.

 

[txhoghunter]

It might not be standard issue to every soldier, but the 1911 is still issued to certain units.
The Marines actually adopted a Kimber for MCSOCOM Detachment 1. I don't know if they are still in use after the unit disbanded in 2006 though.

Here is the link

 

[jmr40]

1911's are being issued and carried by troops as I type this. That is 100 years of service. I don't see them being completely phased out any time soon. The M-9 may well be gone before the 1911 is phased out.

 

[rellascout]

So few of our troops are getting issue 1911s it is hardly worth mentioning. I mean really there cannot be more than 5,000 in service right now as duty weapons.

It is a strawman arguement to say 100 years of service...

These types of dicusssions crack me up. The reality is that we have no idea what the future will bring in terms of materials. Today there is still a niche for metal guns but look at the current guns in production and I am willing to bet that the number of units sold polymer to metal, of any kind, is at least 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1.

It is not that metal frames are obsolete as much as they are being phased out and relagated to a niche market. I honestly think the M9 will be the last metal framed standard issue sidearm for the US military.

 

[Zach S]

The Beretta is going to serve longer than the M1911A1.

I doubt that, considering the 75(?) year head start.

If the M9 is replaced today, it will remain in service for a long time afterward - much like the 1911 has.

 

[txhoghunter]

So few of our troops are getting issue 1911s it is hardly worth mentioning. I mean really there cannot be more than 5,000 in service right now as duty weapons.

Okay, so even if one 1911 is currently "issued" we should not count it as such? As far as I'm concerned, issued is issued, whether it is one or 10,000. If the military is paying for it to be in the hands of a soldier, it counts. Yes, that makes 100 years of an amazing sidearm

They are still issued, even in small numbers, because they are extremely reliable pistols, and do their job very effectively. The only reason they were replaced as the main sidearm is because of the cost of production. The same reason that the M9 took the contract over Sig.

 

[chicharrones]

IMHO most manufacturers are going to have to go this route. Cost and market forces cannot be denied. Most of people making guns these days are doing it on a volume model. That means you have to lower cost or materials and labor. Poly frames accompish both and have proven to hold up longer or as long as their metal counterparts.

I agree. More of the masses can get into a handgun with the economy of polymer. Polymer seems to have killed off many zinc guns. While some "real" metal handguns are moving into "safe queen" status for many modern day shooters, just due to price.

I think this applies to the ever expanding concealed carry market, too.

 

[chicharrones]

The only reason they were replaced as the main sidearm is because of the cost of production. The same reason that the M9 took the contract over Sig.

I thought NATO standardization was at least a part of it.

 

[Remo223]

A kimber is not a 1911A1. The 1911A1 is already phased out. It was phased out 1985.

 

[rellascout]

Okay, so even if one 1911 is currently "issued" we should not count it as such? As far as I'm concerned, issued is issued, whether it is one or 10,000. If the military is paying for it to be in the hands of a soldier, it counts. Yes, that makes 100 years of an amazing sidearm

Are you actually arguing that 1 pistol proves your point that the 1911 is not obsolete as US military side arm?

You may not consider it obsolete but that does not change the reality.

I love 1911s but I am not going to be intellectually or logically dishonest about them. Saying that this elite group used them in 2006 is using a strawman arguement which does not logically prove your assertion that the 1911 is still a relevant US Military sidearm.

Metal guns will be around for hundreds of years as a niche but the sun is setting on their domination in the market place. Putting your head in the sand claiming the US Military still "uses" the 1911 actively again will not change the reality. The US consumers desire to race to the sticker price bottom insures that polymer or the next generation material will push metal further and further out of the mainstream. You do not have to like it. I certainly don't but that is the reality.

 

[Stringfellow]

"Obsolete" is such a strong word. It is too broad to be universally applicable to all firearms.

Depending on the use case (situation), polymer might be a better choice. If you need to carry a pistol as part of your job, I can see how a ~20 oz Glock 19 is pretty appealing compared to perhaps a 1911 at ~ double the weight. Probably the same logic applies for people who need to CC weapons.

But the vast, vast majority of us are not professionals--we are amateurs (and perhaps even hacks ). And I suspect the majority of pistols are not for CC use. In other words, we don't have the same use cases or requirements as professionals. For us, the extra couple of ounces of weight saved with polymer probably won't be as relevant while the pistol is transported to the range or sits in a night stand.

Then it becomes a matter of personal choice. I prefer the extra weight and perceived solidity of steel; I shoot better and more comfortably with steel. And more important, steel contributes to my pride of ownership. Do not discount pride of ownership because it is behind most purchase decisions (in the form of brand equity). Without it, most of us would be shooting Hi-Points and driving Hyundais. I simply prefer steel, and will pay extra for it.

Metal may be obsolete in certain circumstances (i.e., certain market segments), but there will likely always be certain markets that will appreciate (i.e., pay) for metal. It will be interesting to see what role pride of ownership plays with metal pistols, interesting to see how big the metal market segment will be, and interesting to see what premium they will pay for metal...

 

[Onmilo]

From "The Graduate"
'Plastic! It's the future!'

 

[ky40601]

Reaper4206969,

The M1911A1 is still in service.

Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department S.W.A.T. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force). The Tacoma, Washington Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

 

[Onmilo]

Was it Utah or Potatoho that just made the 1911 the official state handgun?

 

[REAPER4206969]

. I think the M&P will replace it in the next ten years,

What part of "just bought 450,000 M9's" don't you understand?

 

[REAPER4206969]

The FBI HRT and Delta use the Glock 22.

The HRT is still issued a SA pro though.

 

[REAPER4206969]

Was it Utah or Potatoho that just made the 1911 the official state handgun?

Utah.

The Glock 22 should be ours.