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Michael Berg, Boy Scouts, Handguns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by BenW, May 27, 2004.

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  1. BenW

    BenW Member

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    I don't want to start a thread destined to be locked based on what comes after the statement of interest, but I find his choice of opening comments somewhat ridiculous. I know a lot of nice people that fire handguns....
    -----------------------
    My son, Nick, was my teacher and my hero. He was the kindest, gentlest man I know; no, the kindest, gentlest human being I have ever known. He quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to teach him to fire a handgun. Nick, too, poured into me the strength I needed, and still need, to tell the world about him.
    :snip:
    ----------------------


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221644,00.html
     
  2. Vibe

    Vibe Member

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    Hmmmm.
    To "quit the Boy Scouts" because they wanted to teach him do do something that there is not even a merit badge for? Sounds rather suspect right there. I can see that one particular group leader might push such an agenda, but only rifle shooting and shotguns are meritbadge material, and even then they are strictly optional - so it's still up to the scout to CHOOSE to persue either one.
     
  3. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    It's still a tragedy even without any qualifying comments on BSA handgun training for the late Mr. Berg.

    We neve fired handguns in MY Troop (officially). We limited our marksmanship to .22 rifles on paper targets and 12 and 20 ga shotguns for clay pigeons. All of our leaders were men who had served (back then most men either volunteered or were drafted, remember) and felt marksmanship and safe firearms handling and proficiency was not only a good idea, but something us boys would require as the draft and the war in SEA was still active.

    It's still a good idea and I can't help but wonder if the outcome of Mr. Berg's demise might have been altered had he a weapon of some sort or the desire to go down swinging.

    Moot point, unfortunately.

    Unofficially, several of us Scouts DID learn all about handguns, but it was thanks to our Dads, all of whom I remember owning a few revolvers, 1911's and a Luger or two. All of these fathers, Dem AND Repub by the way, could not stand the idea of the 68 GCA.

    My how things have changed (Understatement of the year for me so far)
     
  4. boofus

    boofus Guest

    There is a Rifle and Shotgun merit badge and also one for Archery. Don't think there was one for pistol, maybe it is new. But that story does sound like a bunch of hogwash. The merit badge choice is always up to the person. If they don't want to do Swimming or Rifle or Basketry they simply don't sign up for the class. No reason to quit over it.

    Sounds like another naive, kumbaya-singing, lets just cooperate liberal got what was coming to him, I feel no sympathy for these berg creatures. Just anger towards the kidnappers. I can bet money that the senior berg feels no anger towards the people that actually did the cutting and instead directs it at Bush.

    If he wanted to go over and be a human shield or be fodder for the insurgents, he got what he wanted. I recall several news articles where the US armed forces recommended for him to leave the country. It was his choice not to heed the warnings.
     
  5. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I'm supposed to believe anything written in the Guardian?
     
  6. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Isnt the Guardian the NY Times of England?

    WildonlyreadsthecomixAlaska
     
  7. BenW

    BenW Member

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    Well I think in cases like this it's not a matter of believability. This person is throwing his anti-gun agenda into his barrel of many other agendas. Because of the tragic circumstances that have led to him having his "15 minutes", people are listening to what he says, whether it's true or not.

    What he said regarding handguns could be taken for an innocuous statement, but more than likely he, or the activists he hangs out with, put that in to further their agenda implying that guns are evil. Critical thinkers may dismiss his statements; unfortunately emotion seems to have a stronger hold on the general populace.
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    More like the Village Voice of New York: even Lenin would be embarrassed to associate with such leftist nut cases.
     
  9. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    Just more leftist drivel. They will say anything, anytime and something different later. Whatever they deem expedient at the moment. It is a mental disorder. You can't believe any of it.
     
  10. Joshua Hutchison

    Joshua Hutchison Member

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    B) when My boy scout troop went to a range, a couple of really nice gunnies let us shoota an MP-38 :D that was FUN!
    Also got to shoot a .50 (With some special practice round):)

    (EDITED to add that I also got to hold an MP-44 ^_^ Now THAT was cool too :) )
     
  11. DesertEagle613

    DesertEagle613 Member

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    According to BSA regs, scout troops are not permitted to have official events with pistols. Venture crews are allowed to, however.

    The BSA is quite possibly the best hope out there for continued gun-use. I know that in my case, were it not for the Scouts I would probably have never gotten into guns. I do enjoy those 12-ga shotguns :evil:

    //edit: Eagle Scout 2001
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2004
  12. lee n. field

    lee n. field Member

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    They may have done it at some time in the recent past. Somewhere around here I have an old firearms merit badge book, from the 60's. That book, unlike the current one, covers handguns. Revolvers and autoloaders, how to clear and make safe, how to shoot.

    My son's troop now, went to a gun club open house last month. The excuse was to do their rifle merit badge. They got to shoot all kinds of cool guns. And I'll be doing a reloading demo for them sometime in June.
     
  13. Ben Shepherd

    Ben Shepherd Member

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    Those that like and support the boy scouts: Every heard of the area of the NRA called "Freinds of the NRA"? This is the non-political arm, actually a lot of donations to it are tax-deductable. I've recently been put in as chairman for one of thier dinners.

    After seeing some of the financial stuff I can tell you the money they donate to BSA, 4H, and other similar groups for range upkeep is amazing!! In my state alone the figure was well over 10,000 in one year.

    I went through the scout program, spent several years as assistant scout master, a couple years as a varsity team coach. Out of my 8 varsity scouts, one came in with the rank of eagle, the other seven earned it while in my group. All of them got their rifle & shotgun merit badge.

    As others stated, handguns are a big no-no in the scouts, this sounds fishy to me.
     
  14. DonP

    DonP Member

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    Life long scout and scouter here

    Every camp I have ever been at or heard about used .22 bolt action single shot rifles on the range and safety was drilled into your head from day one.

    I have never heard of any scout troop using handguns of any kind. But it does make a nice juicy liberal oreinted quote to smear both the "homophobic" boy scouts and handguns in one sound bite, huh?

    To be as polite as I can be about all this, Mr. Berg has used and abused his 15 minutes.

    All his anger has been of the "blame America first" type. The only things he has said, that I heard, about the men that butchered his son was; "I'm sure they knew and in some way respected my son when they looked into his eyes"

    How freakin disconnected from the real world do you have to be to think that way.

    OK, I'll be the jerk to say it first.

    Mr. Berg is a petty, aelf important, left wing idealogue and a total jerk to use the tragic and criminal death of his son to further his personal set of agendas which his son may or may not have shared.
     
  15. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    The first time I *ever* shot a gun was as a wee lad in Boy Scouts while at Scout camp.

    .22 rifles on a range where safety was paramount - the ROs watched us like hawks.

    What a great time...sigh. Thanks to the OP for stirring-up a long-forgotten pleasant memory... :)

    Sawdust
     
  16. NukemJim

    NukemJim Member

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    I just looked into this because of my nephews. BSA does NOT allow boy scaouts to use handguns .22 bolt action rifles only, either single shot or with a single round magazine. Not sure about Shotguns.

    NukemJim
    Eagle Scout
     
  17. shermacman

    shermacman Member

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    I became an Eagle Scout thousands of years ago (1974). The Rifle and Shotgun Merit Badge was one of the many optional merit badges. It was not required. We fired single shot, bolt action .22lr rifles. There were no hand guns, unfortunately. Shot guns were only covered for safety reasons, we never got to fire them. Gun safety was drilled into our little 13 year old heads. The range, Camp Sabbatis, in upstate NY, had 15 positions to shot from. No one got hurt, I don't remember anyone even messing around.
    Michael Berg is a deranged, pitiful man. I have huge sympathy for his suffering the loss of his son. I also have huge contempt for his misplaced, idiotic lunatic 'thinking'.
     
  18. NEtracker

    NEtracker Member

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    No handguns in the BSA program.
    I recall the rifles that we used at Camp Child were beat up old bolts with very poor sights. Too bad there weren't any DCM rifles at the camp.
    I regret not getting the shotgun merit badge, but did get the Rifle & Archery. Went on to the smallbore team in High School.
    -Eagle Scout, 1976
     
  19. Sean Cloherty

    Sean Cloherty Member

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    Bolt Action .22s for me too. Although I recall a few of the adult leaders bringing their own rifles and a pistol or two for demonstration.

    IIRC I think I spent more on ammo at the PX or TP than I did for chips and soda.

    Eagle Scout, 1983.
     
  20. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    I recall using nothing but air rifles (Cub Scouts) and a .22 bolt action (Boy Scout). That's what got me interested in firearms :p (Eagle Scout - 2001)

    As far as the article goes, quitting because of that has zero relevance to the point of the article. In fact, it has no relevance to any of the article. I stand with DonP in saying

     
  21. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    Doh - double post. Mod delete please?
     
  22. NEtracker

    NEtracker Member

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    I don't have the manual here right now, but the way they word the optional Cub Scout achievement is that it has to be at a Scout camp program. I was thinking of taking my Den to the range, prior to reading that. ... Just found it..

    "only by a certified Cub Scout BB gun shooting director at a BSA approved camp", "Gun-shooting sports are not an approved part of the Cub Scout program, except at Cub Scout day or resident camp", "Although gun-shooting sports are not permitted as den and pack activities, leaders can help parents understand the importance of training and encourage attendance of boys at Cub Scout day camps that offer this training."

    I presented the Eddie Eagle program at a Pack Safety themed meeting this year. I was pleasantly surprised that there was not an outcry from soccer Moms.

    - Eagle Scout '76
    - Former Assistant Scoutmaster
    - Former Tiger Den Leader
    - Current Wolf Den Leader
    - Fall '04, Bear Den Ldr? or Asst Cubmaster?
     
  23. Deavis

    Deavis Member

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    :D


    My troop covered all gun types when we learned saftey. I believe the revolver they showed and allowed us to "safe" was a .38 special Taurus one of the guy's dad owned. I think it would have been better to see an autoloader since they are more complicated than a revolver. Worst case scenario that you may need to deal with. Then again, I remember in 3rd grade on kid's dad came in and gave a gun saftey course to all of us for show and tell. With a rifle and a shotgun in a public school classroom without a police officer with him. That will never happen again.
     
  24. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    I made it to Life rank

    Before girls and rock & roll and those kind of things distracted me.
     
  25. mfree

    mfree Member

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    Heh, I remember shooting skeet with my troop at the scoutmaster's place one day. He had a couple of shotguns, he was using some pump with 12ga 3" shells, and I was using a single shot 20ga break, and every so often I'd take a shot with my dad's .410 bolt single. Fun stuff.

    The scoutmaster brought out an old .22lr SA pistol that we all took turns with. The "target" was a 2 liter bottle set over a little sapling stick. I'd guess range to be 20 feet or so.

    I can't express how proud I was when the very first shot I'd ever fired out of a pistol ended up hitting the stick inside that bottle and flipping it in the air :) Turns out I was a hell of a lot better shot when I was 13 than i am now at 25 :D

    Still, that's the kind of experience you don't forget. Like firing a full size pump shotgun loaded with a 3" magnum shell and not holding it tight enough against my shoulder. I won't forget that either :evil:
     
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