Michigan CPL and Church Permission

[crazydaysorg]

Our church recently bought a building, before we have been meeting in schools, and I approached the session about carrying on church property. According the the response from the pastor the attitude seemed positive, however, they wanted to do further discussion with other congregations in our denomination.

Additionally they suggested they would probably like to have me appear before the session to field questions. My hunch is the questions will probably focus on the second portion of my request, which was that the bylaws for our congregation be updated to by default grant permission to all to carry on church property so the session would not need to review each request.

I can imagine some of the obvious questions which might be presented:

1. Would updating the bylaw to grant permission be sufficient to meet the requirement of the law?

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

2. What percentage of churches grant permission? (I'm not sure this is answerable).

3. What sort of risk does carrying in the church present?

Relevant Law: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rb...eg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425o

Anyway, I am looking for any guidance or resources which I might bring to the session for them to consider.

 

[longknife12]

My church has Security Teams.......therefore, CC is not a problem....I'm on one. Well concealed and prayers it is never needed. Just a silent sentinel at the gate! No real problems yet...............
Dan

 

[Unistat]

I attended a seminar on church security in Grand Rapids put on by http://www.nocssm.org/ featuring Carl Chinn.

Mr. Chinn has some resources and statistics on his website.

As far as concealed carry in church, I just went the simpler route of asking my pastor directly. I also typed up a little form letter that he could sign, just one paragraph giving me permission. I'm not the only one in the church who carries, but I'm not sure about the details on how the others asked the pastor.

 

[NOMI WASP]

I've carried in church for over a year and never said anything. When I started doing night security to enter the building after hours, I meanted having a security team in services which lead to after members with radios. They didn't ask me to join that team.

If there isn't a sign on the door that says I can't carry, I'm not going to worry about it considering my level of involvement their. It's also the only place I ever engage the safety when I'm working in the elevated video booth.

 

[shlike]

On the back of my Michigan CPL it specifically lists those places where CC is prohibited by law. One of the prohibited CC places is as follows:

"Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple, or other place of worship"

I'm not sure that even permission from the pastor or members of the congregation would trump what is law in Michigan. I think you would want to be really clear on that...

 

[HRnightmare]

I'm not sure that even permission from the pastor or members of the congregation would trump what is law in Michigan. I think you would want to be really clear on that...

I cna see either side of this. 1 being a church is privately funded and owned how could the state tell churches they cannot allow its congregation to carry firearms? They must say that as a blanket statement meaning if not otherwise given approval.

On the otehr side of the coin...They receive tax exemption from the government, perhaps that gives the government some sort of ability to govern this.

I would however tend to think if the owner, pastor, president, or BoD or whoever runs your church say yes, the Fed and state gov't has no say in the matter.

 

[NOMI WASP]

"Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple, or other place of worship"

My Indiana CCW doesn't contain this statement.

 

[Darkbob]

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

I added extra emphasis to the pertinant part of the OP's quote which is directly from the applicable law. Concealed carry is allowed as long as the church says it is allowed, you just need to make sure it's allowed first.

As far as what constitutes legal permission (verbal vs written note vs in the by-laws), I'll leave that answer to those with more legal experience.

*Edited to add that the CPL card doesn't have the entire law printed on it, only a rough guideline. The entire applicable law is linked in the OP.

 

[Louca]

As far as concealed carry in church, I just went the simpler route of asking my pastor directly. I also typed up a little form letter that he could sign, just one paragraph giving me permission.

Some other advice would be to make SURE the one who signs it is really the one that counts. Oftentimes, people think the pastor is the "presiding official" when in actuality it is another person or body of people like an elder board, directors, etc. It may not seem like a big deal, but it would be if you had to go to court regarding the issue, for whatever reason.

Lou