Mickey Moore Got the Guns Out of Walmart?

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zpo wagered;
Alaska's got'em, though I don't remember if its in store or book only( I would put money on book only)
even though Kodiak AK (who lives in Alaska) had previously stated;
Our Local Wally World has a old roll mark 1991A1,A few Glocks , some Sigmas and variouse Tarus and S&W .44's

Looks like zpo loses the his money.
Just remember the house cut is 15%.
Will that be cash, charge or Pay-Pal?

:neener:
 
That's not true.

I remember rewinding the movie when MM said it to make sure I heard it right. Geez, I wonder what he meant by "Canadiens have more guns per capita than the US". This doesn't make sense because he's stating something that is NOT true and it WEAKENS his own movie.

Maybe MM is losing it... Anyway, my take on the movie was that overall, it WEAKENED the gun-grabber position or at least it didn't really strengthen it like I thought. I was prepared to throw my TV out the window when I rented the movie and was pleasantly surprised.

Thanks for the correction,
jAK-47
 
In comparison, there were 84 million firearms in the 15 countries of the European Union, 80 per cent in private hands.

Citizens of most European countries are more heavily armed than they realize, with an average of 17.4 guns per 100 people in the 15 EU countries alone," said Aaron Karp, a co-author of the study.
It seems to me that they are treating the EU as one country for the purposes of this study. Probably in an effort to use the lower average rate of firearm ownership to make America the most armed nation on earth.

The EU contains the United Kingdom, Ireland, etc., with bans on firearms and/or heavy gun control and countries like the Czech Republic that is more pro-individual ownership of arms (pretty good idea after that whole Russia thing). Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but last I checked still one of the nations of earth. We have more firearms than Switzerland?

I would love it if it were true. Maybe the study itself can back that up and it's just the story that uses the EU as the comparison. But it sounds to me like another skewed study from the UN Conference on Small Arms. Didn't they call for worldwide gun control a few years ago? They are probably trying to make US politicians feel guilty about that horrible statistic so they will do something about it.

I say we do our best to make that one firearm per person by December 2005.
 
I have several Wal-marts in my area. Some carry longarms/ammo, some don't. I think it depends of how well they expect a product to sell. I've noticed that if you know something about guns they don't let you work in the gun section.
 
Anyway, my take on the movie was that overall, it WEAKENED the gun-grabber position or at least it didn't really strengthen it like I thought. I was prepared to throw my TV out the window when I rented the movie and was pleasantly surprised.

In general, I would agree with you. However, every time the discussion of firearms comes up, it seems like that movie gets mentioned. Even though the conclusions Moore drew from it aren't anti-gun, he went to great lengths to portray the gun rights movement and its leaders as racist and extremists so it has the same effect. If you haven't seen it yet, there's a very detailed dissection of the film at http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html . It's a little disorganized and some of the criticisms seem very... speculative, but it's probably the best one I've seen.

One more FYI regarding Canada vs US that Hardy didn't exploit: the comparison is not all that compelling to begin with. According to Interpol in 2001, the most recent year for which data are available, Canada's homicide rate was 4.10 while the US rate was 5.61, hardly a huge discrepency. The rate of all tracked crimes in Canada was 8,572.50 and less than half of that, 4,160.51, in the US.
 
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According to Interpol in 2001, the most recent year for which data are available, Canada's homicide rate was 4.10 while the US rate was 5.61, hardly a huge discrepency.

Are those homicides exclusively by gun?

Thanks,
jAK-47
 
No, those are overall homicide rates. I'm not sure what Canada's firearms homicide rates are, but the US its about two-thirds of the total.
 
the comparison is not all that compelling to begin with.
No, those are overall homicide rates.

If you aren't comparing apples to apples, it MAY be possible that the comparison IS compelliing. I'd have to know how many homicides in the US vs. Canada were exclusively committed by gun. If a lot of Canada's jealous husbands are throwing their wive's out the window, it really skews the "study" if 2/3rds of America's homicides are done with a gun.

I think that the reason I'm not as critical of Moore's movie as I probably should be is that I was SOOOOO ready for a much more vehement attack on US. The Columbine scene and the interview with Heston and the bank's rifle give-away were pretty tame/lame. The main thing I came away with was that our MEDIA causes the violent tendencies in our society and, because guns are so readily available, that's what we choose to use.

Think about this - if those Columbine kids had exploded a bomb next to the propane tanks or if they had stolen a bus and driven it through the parking lot as the students were being dismissed, the body count would be much higher. The kids were "nuts" BUT they chose guns because the MEDIA told them guns are evil, people are afraid of them, and you LOOK COOL when you use them to murder fellow humans.

Just my 2 cents,
jAK-47
 
Blues- I check off the email notices- it skips straight to the last message, so I didn't see that.
And paypal has some anti gun policies, so it'll be cash. I'm surprised they get to have pistols in store. When I worked at the Supercenter in Owasso, (north of Tulsa,OK) Bentonville was a big pain in the butt. They cut off special ordering of ammo, (5000 a month from local cops right there) we had to order bows from Tulsa and Bartlesville walmarts because our mods didn't carry bows,(brilliant "regional planning" or whatever) and anything else to hurt sales and give customers and us headaches. Its to bad, really, my manager(11yrs and she knows what she is doing) hated giving up pistol sales(it directly hurt bonuses) and they were pretty competitive with local retailers.
 
Let's remember the point Moore is trying to make with the Canada-US comparison. As you yourself pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not the guns that are the issue, it's the fact that America is supposedly more violent. Because the issue is violence in general and the cultural problems that supposedly cause us to be violent, it doesn't matter how many of those homicides were comitted with firearms.

As far as media causing violence, look back at Moore's thesis. He states that media reporting of violence increased 600% even while violence actually decreased, and used this as proof of a "culture of fear." But, and I'm borrowing the point from Hardy, when you flip that around, you see that violence actually declined when the media sharply increased their reports of violence. I don't actually believe that the media caused violence to decrease, but clearly the increase in reporting and the resulting "fear" didn't make us more violent.
 
it doesn't matter how many of those homicides were comitted with firearms.

In comparing two separate societies, it does matter if you're debating how the availability of guns affects the homicide rate. Since the U.S. has more guns per capita than Canada and Canada has a similar homicide rate, can one conclude that our societies are similarly prone to violence and a person who wants to murder someone won't be stifled because a gun isn't handy? Could be! If so, it would be another argument against the gun-grabbers! I know that the families of the 3,000+ victims of 9/11 probably wish the terrorists had used guns. Two big buildings, four planes and about 2,900 people would still exist today! OK, that's a stretch but...

I'm not sure you can prove that the reporting of graphic violence doesn't result in increased violence. What other factors influenced the decrease in violence during the period when reporting of violence increased? Maybe a lot of states passed CCW! It's been proven that crime acutally goes down in places where citizens can legally carry. When they grabbed the guns in Australia, violent crime SURGED!

Moore separated our news from our TV shows/movies because he was trying to say that AMERICAN news contributed to our violent tendencies. Since Canadiens have the same video games, TV shows and movies that we do, Moore was saying the only difference was that a MUCH higher percentage of our nightly news centers on the reporting of graphic violence. I think he even compared the divorce rates of the two countries to rule out kids being "neglected" by one parent upbringing. Certainly, he did NOT prove this point satisfactorily.

I think there is way too much violence on TV and other forms of entertainment and I do believe it contributes to violence in our society. Moore's claim that our nightly news makes us murderers is certainly unscientific. I DO know that I tend to drive faster after I've seen a James Bond film!:what:

It's a good debate and I've learned a lot. If I sound like I'm defending Michael Moore, I think it's time for me to go to bed:D Despite what you may think of Moore, he usually has a method of blending cynicism/sarcasm with 1/2 baked truths to make his side of the argument APPEAR to be infallible. He CERTAINLY did NOT do that in Columbine and, as a gun owner, I am SO glad he didn't.

Thanks,
jAK-47
 
Since the U.S. has more guns per capita than Canada and Canada has a similar homicide rate, can one conclude that our societies are similarly prone to violence and a person who wants to murder someone won't be stifled because a gun isn't handy? Could be! If so, it would be another argument against the gun-grabbers!

We can both agree on that! This has been a good debate. Cheers!
 
Thats a bummer. I just found out I get the 40 rd(small box) Winchester .223 ammo made in Isreal to U.S. mil-spec, and is better than the Winchester 40 rd(big box) .223 U.S. made ammo. That was the bright point in my day Friday. Yay me. Oh, it was 7.93 for my ammo and 11.90 somthing for the made in usa ammo, shipping makes it cheaper? huh.
 
That bites . The cheepest ammo in town is Wolf .
.223 and 7.62.39 are $3.99 a box. 9mm is $8.99, and .45 is $11.99.
Now if I don't want to shoot wolf , my next bet is Wallmart .
22. fed bulk 550rnds for $10.99
.223 Federal Ameican when they have it $6.08 when not the next best is UMC at $6.80.7.62x39mm is $12.
9mm Blazer at $14
.45 Federal AE at $17.

Prices for ammo here blow....
 
Kodiak,

How about bulk mail order? I am buying Wolf .223 for ~65/500, 7.62x39 for <$100/1000, 9mm is about $70/500 and .45 is $110/500.

Shipping is extra to AK, but they can fit alot in one box.
 
I've been looking into it . So far the best case price in town is Wolf at $119 for 500.


Now I need some numbers for weight . Everything I have looked at so far says I need to ship to Seatle to me in care of Sealand and have Sealand bring it up.I live on an island so I can't just have it trucked up. They charge by the pound and it works out to where if it is less than 250 lbs it is a waste of time . I've been runing numbers based on Ammomans site because at least I don't need to pay the shipping for the lower 48 . So far I have about three or four of us that talking about pooling our cash together and getting a few K of ammo that we all have guns for , but it keeps falling apart at the last min . I swear you guys are going to read about me some day in the paper . When I get the big score I am just going to fly down to the lower 48 and stay with my friend in Seattle long enough to get about 20 or 30 K of ammo and ship it up here myself .
 
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jAK-47

...The movie really zings Charlton Heston but that's easy when you corner an old man with Altzheimers. Anyone who objectively looks at the movie catches that Canada has more guns per capita than we do but they don't shoot each other with them. I expected the movie to bash guns and our rights to own them but I didn't get that message at all.
Better take a look at a couple of sites detailing the fraudulent noise Moore put in that film, particularly the heavy editing he did mixing more than one Heston speech to craft the propaganda piece he created -

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.revoketheoscar.com/

Whatever the message you got from his film, most of the Antis take it as a very strong condemnation of firearms ownership.
 
7.62. If you don't mind can you throw those cases on the scale when you get them next time . If I have numbers to crunch I can start kicking people in the butt and going "Ok here is the deal . Your cut of cost is this and you get this ."
 
Mickey Moore Got the Guns Out of Walmart?
I don't recall the doors being that wide. :uhoh:

Granted I haven't been in a WM in a while...:D

Lessee, last ammo I think I boughtfrom WM...yeah here it is..."sticker" on the blue box of Fed shotgun shells says $1.99. The Fed slugs are marked $1.69. I think that location is now a parking lot for drug dealers...
 
Better take a look at a couple of sites detailing the fraudulent noise Moore put in that film, particularly the heavy editing he did mixing more than one Heston speech to craft the propaganda piece he created

Whatever the message you got from his film, most of the Antis take it as a very strong condemnation of firearms ownership.

rayra,

Thanks for those sites. Moore basically LIED in the movie and it STILL was not a strong condemnation of guns, IMHO. Have you seen the movie? I would think the antis would be VERY disappointed. But they are probably seeing what THEY WANT TO SEE - JUST LIKE MAYBE I DID!

Again, I think that because I expected Moore to make us all look like complete idiots AND to make it seem like you'd have to be nuts to own a gun AND guns are responsible for cancer, I was pleasantly surprised. One of my paying hobbies is writing material for comics and I KNOW I could have made a much stronger statement against guns than Moore did; and I LOVE guns!

I could sit through this film with any of my anti-gun friends and not cringe. I would feel very comfortable debating what Moore did/said. Moore is an easy person to dislike and blatantly lying and doctoring interviews to bolster his propaganda won't help him.

Thanks,
jAK-47
 
Kodiak AK, you really do need to visit Seattle.
The last gunshow here one of the big ammo dealers had CCI Blazer 230 gr FMJ .45 for $7.75/50 tax included. Slightly cheaper by the case.
Ammo prices have been good here.
 
Rosie O'Doughnut ambushed Tom Selleck. They can all be carried off by tornados for all I care.

I don't think the tornado exists that could carry Rosie anywhere:neener:
Geez, they needed the Jaws Of Life just to get her to come out of the closet and tell everyone what they already knew!

The only thing she'd be useful for is gelatin tests. I'll buy the ammo!

I LITERALLY ran into her in Disney World and was so tempted to buy a Davy Crockett rifle and give it to her for her son!:p

Did you hear that K-Mart is carrying the new line of Orange Prison Jumpsuits with the Martha Stewart label? What do you call a person worth over a $billion who risks EVERYTHING to steal $39,000?
S-T-U-P-I-D! I'll bet Martha Stupid is anti-Gun, based on her demeanor and the creeps she associates with.:fire:

jAK-47
P.S. I know you meant tornadoes carrying off K-Marts but I couldn't resist!
 
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