Micro 9’s seem to be growing up

[armoredman]

Didn’t say the CZ P10S was a micro .. why did u think I said it was a micro? This thread is basically saying.. people seem to leaning back to larger pistols … that the micro’s are getting larger .. from 10rds to 15 or 17rds ..
The CZ P10S is a nice size Sub compact .. with a great trigger .. mine is 14+1 with the +2 base plate .. just barely increased the height and gives a place for the pinky to land ..
as u see below I do like my CZ P10C also .. and his German friend

View attachment 1257977

Wasn't a criticism, amigo, not at all. That looks like a pair to draw to!

 

[CapnMac]

When do the micros become compacts?

Depending on which way you mean the size difference, as a practical measure, that's the difference between a two-finger grip and a 2 1/2 finger grip, and a three finger grip.

 

[Pat Riot]

I have wrist issues. Very compressed cartilage where the thumb joint and wrist meet along with arthritis.
I owned a Glock 43 and a 48.
The factory G43 just killed my wrist so I put mag extensions on the mags. This helped but not enough.
I bought a G48. The grip length made shooting much nicer except I constantly had to readjust my grip every other round. That was not an issue with grip length. It was a texture / ergonomic issue.
Both slim Glocks went down the road.

I am very interested in trying a P365X to see how I like that. I will not make the mistake of buying before I try.

I do believe the Micro and Sub-Compact guns evolving into longer gripped guns has a lot to do with people not being comfortable shooting lots of rounds through their sub-compacts.
Years ago people bought small guns and rarely shot them.
Today, people shoot their guns a lot more than people used to, especially their SD & HD guns. A longer grip facilitates this.
If people don’t like or aren’t comfortable with a gun they just won’t shoot it as often if at all…or they modify the gun and or magazines to suit their needs.

 

[ukwolfeman]

"Plus", "X", "XL" is when, IMO.

Agree. Micros are intended for concealability and when you mess with extending the grip which is what typically prints the most no longer a micro IMHO.

Don’t carry anything under 4” except in the summer anyhow.

 

[MikeInOr]

Sub compacts are pistols that share their big brothers magazine …
17 Fullsize , 19 Compact ,26 Sub compact &
P10 F , P10 C , P10 S

But see what u mean .. tiny 9’s like the Kahr and DB .. they sorta own that distinction.. I didn’t realize just how small the DB was !

I carried for 20 years just waiting for the DB9 to come along. A truly pocketable and extremely reliable micro 9mm... at a very reasonable price. For a long time I had wavered on buying the Boberg XR9 which was bought out by Bond arms and became their Bullpup 9. But the reliability has always been questionable from what I have read. I think most people are intimidated by the DB9's recoil, being such a small package. I am confident most gun owners can master this tiny 9 if they are willing to put in the range time to familiarize themselves with shooting it. People with hand issues should probably avoid it though and would probably be better off with a locking action .380.

For me my Kahr CM9 isn't pocketable like the DB9. The Kahr is finished nicer but both my CM9 and DB9 have been 100% reliable.

 

[C0untZer0]

Kahr PM9 / CM9
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel: 3.1 in
Length: 5.42 in
Height: 4.0 in
Slide Width: .90 in
Width at slide stop: 1.0 in
Weight: Pistol 14 oz, Magazine 1.9 oz
Capacity: 6+1


Rohrbaugh R9
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel: 2.9 in
Length: 5.2 in
Height: 3.7 in
Slide Width: .82 in
Width at thickest part of pistol: .95 in
Weight: 13.5 oz, magazine 1.6 oz
Capacity: 6+1 Rounds

Kahr CM9 and Rohrbaugh R9:

 

[Charlie98]

For me my Kahr CM9 isn't pocketable like the DB9. The Kahr is finished nicer but both my CM9 and DB9 have been 100% reliable.

I would tend to agree...sure, you can stuff a CM9 in your pocket, but it is not practical, but I don't think 'pocket pistols' are practical, period.

 

[Old Dog]

I don't believe in pocket carry (not pants pockets, anyway, a jacket pocket is occasionally a good idea).

But for me, the sweet spot is the P-365 XL and the Glock 43X.

 

[Boom Vang]

After the initial gee-whiz, the majority of the gunsumers are realizing that the Micro 9mm pistol are not all that enjoyable to shoot, with the result that they shoot poorly with them - or not at all. I have had many clients - mostly beginners and of all genders - buy the small 9mm pistols because the gun shills on WhoTube told them to, and they develop bad habits and poor shooting ability.

That 9mm ammo is the least expensive CF round you can buy is also an unfortunate fact that leads to bad choices.

There is a size/power ratio of effectiveness with firearms, and in those size guns, .380 is basically Everyman's limit. The uninformed think they want a lipstick-sized .50 BMG, until they have to use it.

PS. CCI Blazer Brass recently introduced a reduced velocity 9mm 100 grain FMJ round, that essentially makes the ubiquitous "Micro 9" closer in recoil and effect to a .380.

 

[Old Dog]

I have had many clients - mostly beginners and of all genders - buy the small 9mm pistols because the gun shills on WhoTube told them to, and they develop bad habits and poor shooting ability.

Oh yeah -- when the first polymer framed micro 9s came out, the actual shooting was spectacularly bad. And the instructors couldn't agree: "Go with a 147-grain standard velocity" while others said, "No, go with a light fast mover like 115 grain plus P" ... Either way, recoil sucked, and as @Boom Vang notes, no one shot these pistols well.

 

[PavelSJ]

Even Ruger has come out with a 4" slide for the Max-9. It is understandable why they keep making larger versions of them. Even if longer they are still thinner which does aid concealment and we all know larger guns are easier to shoot well. For now I'm just going to keep rocking my little Max-9. I've always found the micro 9 craze of the last few years interesting. Years ago I had a Kel-Tec P-11. They are all about the same size & capacity it was. The newer ones have better triggers & usually nicer finishes but they are pretty much nicer versions of the same concept.

Not many seem to realize that 1/4" in thickness isn't a whole lot. Who knows, if gun grabbers ever get majorities revolvers might come in vogue again?

 

[Odd Job]

That CZ-P10S does look good! How does it shoot?

 

[PavelSJ]

After the initial gee-whiz, the majority of the gunsumers are realizing that the Micro 9mm pistol are not all that enjoyable to shoot, with the result that they shoot poorly with them - or not at all. I have had many clients - mostly beginners and of all genders - buy the small 9mm pistols because the gun shills on WhoTube told them to, and they develop bad habits and poor shooting ability.

That 9mm ammo is the least expensive CF round you can buy is also an unfortunate fact that leads to bad choices.

There is a size/power ratio of effectiveness with firearms, and in those size guns, .380 is basically Everyman's limit. The uninformed think they want a lipstick-sized .50 BMG, until they have to use it.

PS. CCI Blazer Brass recently introduced a reduced velocity 9mm 100 grain FMJ round, that essentially makes the ubiquitous "Micro 9" closer in recoil and effect to a .380.

Diamondback has come out with 6-shot 9mm snub revolver. It seems to be a mutant of LCR and Kimber, is it any good?

 

[mavracer]

It's almost like one size doesn't "fit all".

 

[GEM]

Good to have choices. I didn't like a G43 when I rented it. Keeping with my G26.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

I’ve always been of the mindset that the 365 and those of it’s ilk, both before and after; are subcompact’s masquerading as pocket pistols… you want a pocket gun buy a DB9 or LCP…

 

[Jim Watson]

My Wrangler Cargo Pants will accomodate a Glock 43. Side pocket, not leg pocket.
It is reasonably shootable for the 25 rounds of GSSF Indoor Pocket Division.
Right now I am firing it at least 9 rounds at nearly every range trip even if mostly for another gun; I am building the round count to get confident in the Magguts +2 kit. So far, so good.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Not many seem to realize that 1/4" in thickness isn't a whole lot. Who knows, if gun grabbers ever get majorities revolvers might come in vogue again?

I disagree, but it really depends on where that 0.25" is on a gun. On a 1911, the gun is often 0.25"-0.5" wider at the thumb safety , but only an inch on the slide and frame. On a Glock, an extra 0.25" in width is basically extra width along the whole gun. On a revolver, the max width is only at the cylinder and everything else is extremely slim.

Personally I find tacking on an inch in barrel length changes that comfort and concealability of the gun not at all, but adding an inch to the butt would make it a lot less comfortable and concealable, and adding 0.25" to the grip width makes the difference between being a comfortable gun to grip and natural point of aim and something with the ergonomics of a brick.

 

[PavelSJ]

Good to have choices. I didn't like a G43 when I rented it. Keeping with my G26.

The grip is too short on both, I prefer G19 size grip.

 

[Buckeye63]

Been planning to get that and a P32 this Summer. How is the reliability with the heavier spring?

100% .. just even less recoil ..

 

[PavelSJ]

100% .. just even less recoil ..

Don't change springs. Recoil with fmj Fiocchi and S&B ammo is noticeably < .380 in gun of similar size and weight.

 

[Buckeye63]

Don't change springs. Recoil with fmj Fiocchi and S&B ammo is noticeably < .380 in gun of similar size and weight.

I like the +10 RSA in the Security 380

 

[Jim Watson]

I need to buy some .32s, I let a friend shoot all but what is in the gun to study pocket pistols. (He bought a .380.)

 

[PavelSJ]

I found Italian-made Fiocchi 73 fmj to be best ammo for .32 ACP. The bullet has cannelure which mates into case mouth. The recoil is noticeably < that found in .380 ACP gun of similar size and weight.

 

[Walkalong]

Different sizes for different applications.