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Micro-stamped ammo Serial # B.S.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by smullen, Nov 8, 2008.

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  1. smullen

    smullen Member

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    Was just at a local gun store in St. Charles Mo and I heard the guy behind the counter telling a few hunters he needed to see ID to sell them ammo...

    One of the old hunter guys said. since when???

    The coutner guys said, since we got this... He whipped out some official looking document that said stating Jan 1 2009, they had to request ID and log it with the Serial #s of said ammo....

    Pretty much everyone started b!tching...

    Man, I've been in bed sick the last few days with some kinda flu and its like I just woke up in a bad dream... Still sick, but I had to hit a few stores and see what was goin on 1st had....
     
  2. Phydeaux642

    Phydeaux642 Member

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    :confused::rolleyes:


    I'm sure glad the guys I buy ammo from don't serialize it.
     
  3. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    Ammo with serial numbers? Uh-huh...sure...:scrutiny:

    So, is each cartridge given a different number? Doubtful...

    The only number I can think of relating to a cartridge would be the lot number, and a lot of cartridges is, well, a lot of cartridges, as in very very many.

    Hundreds if not thousands of boxes of ammo are going to be from the same "lot" and thus have the same number.
     
  4. tmajors

    tmajors Member

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    Only ammo serialize bill I could find for Missouri was introduced, read, then died in committee back in February.
     
  5. rocinante

    rocinante Member

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    Well friend this should be easy enough to put to rest. I did a quick google search with terms "missouri ammunition serialization" and saw there is a bill and it was scheduled for a hearing last March but NOTHING about it passing. Satisfied my curiosity but I am in Georgia so my level of interest isn't as acute as your should be. It is B.S. NO DOUBT.
     
  6. Mossberg88

    Mossberg88 Member

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    Feel bad for the person serializing those 550 boxes of .22 LR :neener:
     
  7. J23

    J23 Member

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    This may be out of left field, but intead of serialized information, could they be IDing people and taking down the LOT NUMBER? Just a thought.
     
  8. Float Pilot

    Float Pilot Member

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    I remember back in the 1970s when there was a period of time when you had to sign for any ammo that could be used in a handgun. And that was here in Alaska. At first it included 22 ammo and they eventually dropped that requirement. Then the whole thing disappeared. That was a Federal requirement that somehow spun off from the 1968 gun laws.

    After running out of college tuition money in the mid 70s, I ended up in the Navy as my first branch. They figured that they could screw with me the most by sending me to the east coast. I still remember driving across the border into Massachusetts with all my shooting irons. Then I saw the big sign at the state line that warned of a prison term for firearms possession. It was like I died and went to hell.
     
  9. smullen

    smullen Member

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    I'm hopping your right, but I did see the paper that had some H.R. number on it... They said they just got it faxed to them a day or so ago and blah blah blah...

    So again, I hope its either B.S. or gets no traction...
     
  10. tmajors

    tmajors Member

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    Just a hunch but I don't think an actual regulation would just be faxed to the gun store. Probably some schmuck playing a prank or doesn't understand the difference between a bill and a law.
     
  11. Steve N

    Steve N Member

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    Just go back to the store, and ask for a photocopy of the document. Post it on here, and do some research yourself.
     
  12. moooose102

    moooose102 Member

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    can you imagine how small the serial numbers would have to be after the first few million rounds. that would take what six weeks? there just isnt that much room on a 22lr shell. the only ones that it would be any benifit on would be handgun rounds, for the police to be able to trace who bought it. again, how much room, and the same with the bullet. and how would you keep it from being destroyed when shooting. what if a person sold the shells at a yard sale due to money problems? would we require private citizens to record every s/n of every bullet and get drivers licenses of the people who bought said ammo? what about reloading? old stock? this whole idea is rediculous!
     
  13. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    I live in Missouri. The clerk is full of s**t. No law of this type exists...

    I smell a troll
     
  14. Restorer

    Restorer Member

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    There is a group trying to get this done state by state. It made it to the Alabama Judiciary this year as house bill 541. My rep told me that he didn't think it would come for a vote and if it did it would be defeated. The session ended without a vote.

    The protocol the guy in the store was trying to use would be correct it it were law. The bullet serialization expenses would be borne by the manufacturers and they would have to implement huge price increases to stay in business. Imagine Hornady having to re-tool to stamp the base of each and every bullet with a unique number; it would cost them millions. Then the numbers go into a data base where they are recorded at each and every transaction, including private sales. That cost to be borne by the state and therefor taxpayers, probably in the form of a per-round per-transaction tax.

    Here's the process description
    http://www.ammocoding.com/

    What would happen is that Hornady would stop selling bullets in Alabama, and Hornady bullets would be illegal in Alabama...oh, yeah, I forgot to mention, part of their intended process is forfeiture of all non-serialized ammo. It amounts to a defacto ammo ban. Even LE wouldn't be able to afford training ammo.

    Here is a link for these clowns:
    http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/

    Apparently they don't have a working system to implement this yet, they expect to be paid by state royalties. They say on the site that the system (no independent testing) has a 99% accuracy rating by law enforcement test. I've yet to see a LE agency in favor of this foolishness.

    Another link for the pinheads behind it, with the funding
    http://www.ravensforge.com/about.htm


    Ravensforge inventors of record are Mr Steve Mace of Seattle, Washington and Mr Russel H Ford also of Seattle. They have a patent pending for the process. Ravensforge is connected to the microstamping technology that California bought into recently. It is very interesting to see that as part of their About Us mission statement they boldly state that the implementation requires legislation. Interestingly enough they also intend to charge a licensing fee for EVERY bullet sold as well....

    They have great concerns for our safety. Witness the protection from skateboard damage product that they sell. One of the target markets is government buildings, and I'll bet some committees have purchased them. Oh, what fools these mortals be.
     
  15. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    If the ammo is serialized by having a microstamped chamber put an imprint in the fired case, does it not have to be fired first? :rolleyes:
     
  16. Restorer

    Restorer Member

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    No. This isn't the same as the micro-engraved firing pin BS they tried. Raw bullets, bullets in manufactured ammo and brass would be microstamped as part of the manufacturing process, so the number will appear whether fired or not. I think if the ammo is sold as a complete round the stamp on the bullet and the brass must match. Think of it as chain of evidence, from laser stamping die to final target.
     
  17. fastattack

    fastattack Member

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    Hey guys, try buying ammo in the city of Los Angeles. They require a thumbprint for pete sake. Oh, and don't forget that you can't even buy ammo before New Years and before the 4th of July.
     
  18. smullen

    smullen Member

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    NO Troll here... Better check your all knowing nose...

    If my definition of trolling is correct,which is posting of some B.S. just to cause trouble on a internet forum, I'm a bit put off by that...

    I mean what do I have to gain by speading mis-information about my favorite hobby (wife and friends call it my obsession)...

    The gun store is called Gateway Outfitters, right offa HWY 70 in St. Charles.... I herd the old crotchity guy beind the counter telling other old guys about it and I saw the paper.... Your welcome to drive up out of the sticks and check it out yourself... Wait it easier to thow around your little comments...

    Sorry, I did not force him to hand it over, so I could prove something to some guy on the internet...

    I heard him talking about it figured I'd ask here...

    My father, uncles and I have been shopping there for years even before it was called what it is now... Just because I am not up on every law, I had not reason to doubt the guy and think hey may have been trolling too...

    I figure the Gun dealer is nomally a tad bit more informed than I...
     
  19. smullen

    smullen Member

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    Pretty much what the old guy was saying... No mention of the firing pin..

    Do you have legit links that have more info on this???
     
  20. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    smullen...I just posted a quiry on missouricarry web site. Figure I'll have an answer later...
     
  21. smullen

    smullen Member

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    Cool, thanks... I've never heard of that site... I'll look it up and add it to my links...

    Thanks again..
     
  22. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I just called Gateway Outfitters at (636) 916-0242 and pressed 2 for the Gun Department and talked with Bill in the Gun Department. I asked if he has 30-30 ammo in stock. He said, yes, he sure does.

    I then asked if I need any type of ID to buy the ammo and he said "nope, not at all." I said "thank you very much" and hung up.

    I wonder if there were just a few guys there joking around and you may have caught part of it and not the whole thing.

    Your fever isn't over, say, 106F is it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
  23. Restorer

    Restorer Member

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    This is about the firing pin. There is more out there, just Google it. This tech isn't "mature" so it's not likely to happen but this is the kind of garbage they keep trying.
    http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/MicrostampingStudySummary.pdf

    http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/microstamping/Backgrounder-UCDavis.pdf

    These are the links from my previous post. The ammoaccountability one is interesting...open all the tabs, especially the legislative one.
    http://www.ammocoding.com/
    http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/
     
  24. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Restorer

    I would rather that they serialize the ammo than take my guns!:rolleyes:
     
  25. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    smullen...www.missouricarry.com

    Look for the thread titled "Gateway Outfitters" under "Lets talk politics".
     
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