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Mid-level FAL: DSA Austrian vs. Imbel (Entreprise)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by MyRoad, Aug 24, 2008.

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  1. MyRoad

    MyRoad Member

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    For about $1,000, the two mid-priced mid-quality factory FALs seem to be the DSA Austrian -- built with some recycled parts and not coming with the same warranty that the other DSAs come with, or the Imbel FALs built by Entreprise that Atlantic Firearms is selling.

    Is there a clear winner? Pros and cons of each?
     
  2. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    While the DSA might use some used Austrian parts, it is built on a great receiver.:D

    Entreprise on the other hand will use all used Brazilian parts and a (IMHO) POS:barf: receiver. If they used a Imbel reciever it might be a closer game.

    Ive got rifles built on both recievers, Id get another DSA receiver tommorow, Im probley never buying another Entreprise.
     
  3. Atlantic Firearms

    Atlantic Firearms Member

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    We sell rifles built by both firms , DSA is the best out there but the current Entreprise rifles & receivers are good and not a POS . We have shipped approx 60 rifles with only 1 minor issue so far and no customer complaints.
     
  4. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    Lets see... :evil:

    DSA receiver- Machined from forged steel, using orgional Austrian (a FN licencee) blueprints.:cool:

    Entreprise receiver- Cast, (with known problems of porosity in castings) reverse engineered, no FN blueprints. Known problems with ejector block installment, and bad reciever geometry on reciever feed rails.:barf:

    POS in my book,:cuss: (and many others, do a search on the FAL Files)

    After many hours of work, and much blood, tears, toil, and sweat Ive got the Entreprise running like a raped ape, and the exterior finish machining on the one Entreprise Ive got is actually nicer than my last DSA, but hey, ever see the exterior finish machineing on a real FN? ;)

    While Imbel recievers MIGHT be "better" than DSA (hammer forged from FN licencee vs billet forged from non-FN licencee) I'd rather have the rest of the parts built by a country that I can drink the water in.:uhoh:

    I actually should thank Entreprise, the 2 years I spent trying to get their reciever to run taught me a lot, and started my current obsession with the rifle.:p
     
  5. MyRoad

    MyRoad Member

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    Thanks for the comments.

    Even if I stick with DSA, is there any reason I should avoid the STGs? Are they going to be less reliable, durable, or accurate than the SAs?
     
  6. mstirton

    mstirton Member

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    My Stg58 has run about 2k rounds perfectly since I got it in 2003. It is my favorite rifle and I wish I could afford to shoot it more.
     
  7. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Hmm. DSA is now offering the STG series without the traditional DSA warranty?

    Mike
     
  8. MyRoad

    MyRoad Member

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    They say: "Limited Lifetime Warranty on New Parts"

    I've emailed them and requested a list of the parts that are NOT new (and therefore not covered). I did that about two hours ago, I'll let you know if they get back to me.

    Edit to add: When they drop the warranty on certain parts, it indicates that they don't have the same faith in those parts as the others. While this is understandable considering they are used, in the mean time it caused me to wonder which parts are questionable.
     
  9. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    FWIW, I have both an SA58 and STG-58C factory built by DSA.

    I can tell you that the STG is a better bang for the buck than the SA58. The SA58 overall finish might be a little nicer, but $500 better? Questionable. The SA58 has a .308 barrel, and the STG has a 762x51 barrel. That, and the aluminum vs. steel lower is about the only functional difference as far as I can tell.

    Overall I have just as much confidence in the function of the STG as the SA58. If you manage to break any parts, just replace them with a US made version... but I don't think that is going to be very likely.
     
  10. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    BTW, "used", in my expereience, means "sat in a warehouse and never assembled". I couldn't find any indication of any wear at all on any of the "used" parts.
     
  11. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    Dont be worried about the "old" parts.

    Of all the surplus FAL parts out there, Austrian StG's are very close to being the very best. Austria hasnt had a real war for quite some time, and they are a tutonic people used to producing and mantaining fine machinery.

    As long as they gauge fine they are usually better than the "new" ones. Some "New" US made receivers have been some of the worst FAL parts ever produced.

    You just cant econommicly replace the quality that a state-run arms maker could do the 60's, using the private sector today.

    I would take NOS Imbel parts over most new US made parts anyday.

    The parts to stay away from are the ones that were used in every single little bush war and insurection that happened on both the South American and African continents. Watch out for the SA kits. The paint is cool but usually they been rode hard and put away wet.
     
  12. goon

    goon Member

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    I'd buy another DSA STG-58 in about two seconds if my bank account could support it.
     
  13. Ash

    Ash Member

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    Imbel did produce under license.

    Ash
     
  14. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    I dont think anybody posted differently.
     
  15. Atlantic Firearms

    Atlantic Firearms Member

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    We have sold the DSA STG rifles for years and have 2 demo guns here, we have never spotted any parts that looked worn or used and the demo guns have not missed a beat , 75 % of the DSA rifles we have sold are the STG series and so far so good .
     
  16. MyRoad

    MyRoad Member

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    This might be a stupid question... but is it possible, and if so how difficult is it to take off the bipod and the handle on an STG? I've never handled one of these guns, so I don't know how they are attached.
     
  17. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    Yes its possible, and very easy with the correct tools.

    I commend your tastes.

    The bi-pod increased my "cone-of-fire" to greater than 8moa (the rifle was 2.5 moa before the bipod.

    And as for the carry handle:
    It's not a bloody purse!
     
  18. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    An STG58C is my dream rifle, when i win the bloody lottery, (to crib from the preious poster.)!
     
  19. Ash

    Ash Member

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    "While Imbel recievers MIGHT be "better" than DSA (hammer forged from FN licencee vs billet forged from non-FN licencee) I'd rather have the rest of the parts built by a country that I can drink the water in"

    That is what I was responding to.

    Ash
     
  20. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    Imbel IS the hammer forged receiver built from FN licencee, DSA is the billet forged one from a non-FN licencee. DSA uses the blueprints from a FN licencee, but they are not one.

    That is why the Imbel receiver "might" be better.

    Entreprise built rifles using Imbel receivers in the past, the current Entreprise rifle uses a back-engineered US made casting (with porosity problems)and they are not even close.

    To me a Imbel receivered, Imbel parts rifle would be very close in worth to a DSA recievered, US parts rifle
     
  21. MyRoad

    MyRoad Member

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    Since you guys have been so patient replacing my ignorance with knowledge...

    What are the "correct tools"?

    And as a side note, this is no longer theoretical, I just won one in an online auction. :)
     
  22. dscottw88

    dscottw88 Member

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    DSA is top of the line, and the arguably the best FAL receiver out there next to Imbel, and austrian parts are pretty awesome too. Enterprise is not so much the best, regardless of what kit they are built on. The receiver is a pretty dang important part of the rifle.
     
  23. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    You need to fabricate a castle-nut socket.

    Find a socket that is the right size, and dremel slots on the socket to allow it to engage the castle nut.



    May still require some heat to make the nuts let go. [​IMG]
     
  24. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    I got my bi-pods on and off with a BF screwdriver and padded vice-grips. Easy to get off not so easy to get back on. The Bi-pod Castle Nut tool made from a socket makes the job much easier.

    The nut that holds the carry handle comes off and installs best with M-14 castle nut plyers. A Swiss army knife bottle opener works well also. There is a special tool made just for it but the M-14 tool works the best. You can also remove it and reinstall it with a pair of vice-grips.:evil:
     
  25. Dan Forrester

    Dan Forrester Member

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    What's the diffrence between "hammer forged" and "billet forged"? Is one better than the other?

    Thanks, Dan
     
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