"Mil-Spec" 168 HPBT ???

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Laphroaig

Laphroaig

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I was just checking my Wednesday E-blast email from Wideners and saw some fairly cheap 30 cal 168 HPBT match bullets. As far as I can tell from the ad, the manufacturer is "Mil-Spec". Or am I reading it wrong?

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8440&dir=

Has anyone ever heard of this outfit or have some experience with these bullets? I wouldn't want to buy them and find out that they are junk:cuss: Thanks.

Laphroaig
 
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Mil-Spec is not the manufacture.
Or a manufature.

They are just saying they are mil-spec bullets.
Whatever that means?

Who knows who actually makes them?
Or what mil-spec they are talking about.

Only the Shadow & Widners knows!

But, I have no experiance with them.
Maybe someone else will post who has?

rc
 
They're more than likely pull-downs from M852 ammo. M852, to my knowledge, uses 168gr Sierra Matchkings. Those are the only 168gr US "mil-spec" bullets as far as I know.
 
It's almost impossible to tell if those 168gr Match bullets are Sierra, Hornady or even another maker. I know the Sierra and Hornady 168gr Match bullets are identical because I'm looking at them right now. The 175gr Match bullets on the Widener's site have an exposed lead base while the 175gr SMK bullets I'm looking at do not.
 
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Mil-Spec doesnt mean Quality.
All it means is it meets the Minimum Standard a supplier has to meet to manufacture a bullet or any item for the military.
Then they go with the lowest bid for any item that meets that standard.
So what Mil-Spec are they meeting.

Mil-Spec does not also mean Consistancy.
It is a Minimum standard.
So one bullet of that Mil Spec, could be better than another that meets the same Minimum Spec.
The more detailed the Spec's are, the better off you are.
 
The Hornady and Sierra 168 HPBT bullet run about a penny/bullet each more if available from "Midway". I would give Widners a call and ask them where these bullets were made/born as they should have some technical data to share if selling massive quantity's and boasting of great things to expect from them. I have ordered and purchased from them with good results in the past. Most of their inventory never seems to have a chance to gather any dust.
 
Mil-Spec is simply a marketing term being used and has zero to do with the item meeting any military specifications. Ask them what the document number is that lists the defense specifications/technical requirements for this particular item, and there will be a long pause. They are simply playing fast and loose with the term "Mil-Spec" by offering a bullet of the same weight and same basic construction as one that was once used for target shooting in the military. Another term being widely used to hawk goods is the word "Tactical". A fool and his money are soon parted, and marketers are no different today than they were when these words were first penned.

Don
 
I see they are selling Sierra 155 MKs for the same price. My advise is that if you already have a 168gr bullet that you like, just stick with that. The last thing you want is to buy 500 bullets that aren't as consistent. Unless you figure out what the difference is. Sorry, I really don't know; but the others here could be right about them being SIE 168s.
 
Mil-Spec is simply a marketing term being used and has zero to do with the item meeting any military specifications. Ask them what the document number is that lists the defense specifications/technical requirements for this particular item, and there will be a long pause. They are simply playing fast and loose with the term "Mil-Spec" by offering a bullet of the same weight and same basic construction as one that was once used for target shooting in the military. Another term being widely used to hawk goods is the word "Tactical". A fool and his money are soon parted, and marketers are no different today than they were when these words were first penned.
Click to expand...

Not merely a 10, but a pin wheel X! USSR you are shooting a perfect score on this!

Wideners was selling 168's made from prvi partisan, I highly suspect these are more of the same. http://www.prvipartizan.com/

You could call and ask if these bullets are Speer, Hornady, Sierra, and if they are, they will be excellent bullets. I had buds who bought the Prvi Partisan, they are better than military 150 FMJ's, but, they are not as good as American match bullets.

If you are killing rocks, hey, rocks don't know what bullet hit them..
 
Wonder what military they were "mil-spec" for? The now discontinued M118 round used an open-base 173 gr. bullet. I never heard of an open-base 168. But there's a lot I haven't heard of, FWIW...
 
Wonder what military they were "mil-spec" for? The now discontinued M118 round used an open-base 173 gr. bullet. I never heard of an open-base 168.
Click to expand...

U.S. M852 used a 168gr Sierra MatchKing HPBT bullet. The bullet Widener's is offering is also a 168gr HPBT bullet, hence they call it "Mil-Spec". It's a leap, but that's their logic.

Don
 
So what is this manufacturer?

Mil-Spec Industries Corp. is a U.S. Government Contractor and a global manufacturer and supplier to both Defense and Commercial industries for Special Chemicals, Energetic Materials, Pyrotechnics, Ordnance and Aerospace Components & Systems, and other related Defense products and solutions.

Our Vision is to meet customers’ demands for quality, delivery and market-competitive pricing.

Our Mission is to provide the best price-performance, quality service, and value to our customers.

Our Strategy is to build strong relationships with our worldwide manufacturers, joint venture productions, offices and agents to provide our customers with the latest technology and best available prices.

Our Aims Are: QUALITY, PROFESSIONALISM & EXCELLENCE
Click to expand...

I do see ammunition in their product line and machinery for making ammunition. I don't have a clue but maybe the Wideners ad is correct and these bullets came from these guys? Maybe the Mil-Spec reference really is to the manufacturer?

Ron
 
Thanks guys. I truly believe that if they were SMK's, Widners would say so. The 175 pull downs they sold recently were plainly advertised as SMK's. If I remember and/or have time I'll call them Monday to see what they say and let you know.

While that's a pretty decent price for a SMK or Hornady, its certainly not cheap enough to take a chance on without knowing for sure.

Looking at the link that 243Win posted, Mil-Spec Industries lists just about every bullet made, including 168 HPBT's. I figure they buy them from others and resale to the gubmint. PP's would be my guess here also.

Laphroaig
 
wideners can be a little annoying, but they are a few hours down the road and i have purchased probably more than 50,000 projectiles from them over the past 10 years and would generally recommend them for bulk purchase when the price is right.

their mystery eastern euro imported projectiles make decent practice ammo but you're not going to win any benchrest matches with it. at least, i haven't been able to get them to shoot all that well. most of my experience is with their 75g 223 bullets, but i did get some 308 from them years ago that was 1.5 MOA ammo in my SR25.
 
I purchased some of the Wideners "Mil Spec", 168 grain HPBT's 7 or 8 years ago. The price was a good bit lower than equivalent Sierra or Nosler bullets and once I received them it became obvious why this was the case.

The bases were very uneven and they looked exactly like a batch of Prvi Partizan 168 grain HPBT non match bullets that I'd purchased a year or two earlier from Graf & Sons. Prvi later started making a "Match" version of this bullet that's supposed to be much better than the ones I got, but I've never tried them.

If the 155 grain MK's are the Palma version and are the same price, I'd jump on 'em even if the 168's were Sierras. The 155 Palmas have a higher BC and can be pushed a good bit faster as well. They are VERY accurate bullets.

In any case I don't see how ANY HPBT bullet can be "Mil Spec" since evil hollow point bullets are prohibited by the Hague Convention.

"Open Tip Match" bullets on the other hand are apparently just fine... :scrutiny:

The top bullet is a "Mil Spec" 168 grain HPBT that I got from Wideners 7 or 8 years ago, the bottom bullet is a Sierra 168 grain HPBT.
 

Attachments

  • TOP Mil Spec Wideners, 168 gr HPBT. BOTTOM Sierra MK, 168 HPBT.jpg
    TOP Mil Spec Wideners, 168 gr HPBT. BOTTOM Sierra MK, 168 HPBT.jpg
    39.3 KB · Views: 13
Haven't used those.

But have shot many of their "mil-spec" 55FMJBTs. They are brand new, not pulldowns, and seem very consistent dimensionally and by weight. Cannelures are consistent as well. They shoot good. FWIW. Does that translate to the bullets in question? If the price is decent I'd sure try them.
 
Swampman said:
In any case I don't see how ANY HPBT bullet can be "Mil Spec" since evil hollow point bullets are prohibited by the Hague Convention.

"Open Tip Match" bullets on the other hand are apparently just fine... :scrutiny:

The top bullet is a "Mil Spec" 168 grain HPBT that I got from Wideners 7 or 8 years ago, the bottom bullet is a Sierra 168 grain HPBT.
Click to expand...

It only applies to the countries that chose to take part in it. And even then, it only applies to bullets designed to cause grotesque damage to combatants (or something along those lines). Since "match" hollow points (same thing as open-tip match) aren't designed to expand like a hunting type hollow point and they're mainly designed to increase accuracy, they can still be used against countries that abide by The Hague.

My guess is still that the bullets in question are 168gr Sierra Match Kings, if they are indeed "mil-spec." Those are the only mil-spec 168gr .308" bullets used by the US military.
 
In any case I don't see how ANY HPBT bullet can be "Mil Spec" since evil hollow point bullets are prohibited by the Hague Convention.
Click to expand...

Nope. Bullets designed to expand are prohibited, not hollowpoints specifically. Our current issue 7.62x51 sniper round uses a 175SMK, a hollowpoint bullet. We have decided that: 1. it is not designed to expand, it is a hollowpoint simply as a result of the manufacturing method (insert lead from front instead of rear), and 2. in most cases it does not expand. And finally, we did not sign the Hague Convention, even though we do abide by it.

Don
 
OK, I did call Wideners this morning. The lady who answered said these bullets are "probably" PP's. When I asked if there was a chance that they were SMK's, the answer was "Probably not". Unfortunately, the person who knew for sure won't be in until 9 or 9:30. I have to get to work. I don't think its worth a call back.

Laphroaig
 
This is an interesting thread. If you really like 168gr match bullets, I'd just stick with Sierra or Hornady; anything that works for you. You don't need to buy 500 bullets and find out they are junk. Personally I'm a fan of AMAX bullets because they are match and have terminal performance on varmints. My cousin just converted to the 155 Amax in his 308 and loves it. My experience with SIE MKs is that they don't expand; at least on a woodchuck. I've never seen a Sierra fail to be accurate either. +1 on the PALMAs too. I've seen some great accuracy out of them.
 
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