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Militia Chaplain is Dead

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Ryder, Jul 14, 2003.

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  1. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Looks like news that Scott Woodring episode is over hasn't made the headlines to you all? At least 24 hours ago it was released here. Here are the details as provided.

    "Scott was found sitting in a vehicle 4 miles from his home. He was ordered not to exit the vehicle. He got out with a rifle. He was shot to death"

    That was the whole story. The announcer appeared to be suffering duress. No further details were released.
     
  2. bjengs

    bjengs Member

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    Where did you hear this? Who was the announcer etc.?
     
  3. hammer4nc

    hammer4nc Member

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    Shot yesterday morning. This grand rapids tv station has several news stories and video of MSP news conference on the incident, for those interested. Link: http://www.woodtv.com
     
  4. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Local television news bjengs. According to what hammer4nc says it wasn't even released here for close to 18 hours.
     
  5. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Thanks for the link hammer4nc.

    Can somebody expain this comment to me? "Police all but ruled out the possibility that Marshall could have been shot by another officer. The bullets that struck him were fired by a weapon of smaller caliber than those issued to state police"

    Doesn't "all but ruled out" mean it has not been ruled out? And weren't they using 5.56 caliber rifles? I don't get it.
     
  6. Intune

    Intune Member

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    Michigan Militia Standoff Update
    An all-points-bulletin was issued by the Michigan State Police on July 9, 2003, for Scott Alan Woodring, the Michigan militia member who allegedly shot and killed a Michigan State Trooper during an armed standoff in Fremont in western Michigan.
    Authorities decided to force an end to the standoff on the afternoon of July 8, using armored vehicles on loan from the Michigan National Guard to approach Woodring's house so that percussion grenades could be launched into the building. Two grenades were detonated, shortly after which the building caught fire and was rocked by explosions.
    Woodring was originally thought to have been in the building when it burned down. However, a search of the building's remains failed to turn up any evidence of Woodring. Michigan State Police now believe he may have left his home as early as Monday afternoon. A backpack filled with food and ammunition was found on July 8, three quarters of a mile from Woodring's home. Woodring's wife has reportedly identified it as belonging to her husband.
    A warrant for Woodring's arrest has been issued on murder and firearms charges.


    W Z Z M 1 3 N E W S H E A D L I N E S
    Woodring LatestBy Tatum WanPosted: 7/14/2003 Grand Rapids - The medical examiner today confirmed Scott Woodring died from multiple gun shot wounds yesterday. State Police responded to a residence near 60th Street and Maple Island Road in Newaygo County. Woodring approached a person in that residence that knew of Woodring. That person was concerned for his or her safety because that person said Woodring acted abnormally. That concern was eventually relayed to police. Police found Woodring in a car behind a house around five thirty in the morning. Five of the eight troopers who responded shot Woodring. Police say Woodring failed to follow instructions and Woodring turned on the officers with a semi-automatic assault rifle. Police don't believe woodring actually fired any shots though. At this point, police don't know how many shots Woodring received. Police now believe Woodring left his house in Dayton Township around dusk on Monday July 7th. An officer noticed someone in the northside of the house around that time. Police believe some people may have helped Woodring hide from police. If that is the case, those people could be charged with accessorty after the fact which is a five-year felony. If you know of anyone who might have helped Woodring get away, call 1-800-991-TIPS.


    Police have stated that they felt that they would have to go in either Tuesday or in 30 days and that this was calculated risk that they had to take.

    W Z Z M 1 3 N E W S H E A D L I N E S
    Statement of Debbie DeVisser for the Woodring FamilyBy Posted: 7/9/2003 Our sympathy, thoughts, and prayers are with Trooper Kevin Marshall's family. Before the standoff started, the family feels that the whole ordeal could have been prevented. We know that a family member contacted authorities with specific information on the best way she felt they could have served the original warrant to Scott, where he would be located during daylight hours on July Fourth when he would be with family members for support. But, for reasons unknown to us they chose not to use this information. We find it hard to believe Scott would intentionally harm anyone unless it was from a feeling of self-defense. The statement presented at the news conference this morning would indicated otherwise. To clarify previous statements about Scott's wife's removal from the home, she wants it known that she left willingly. We know that Scott did not prevent her from leaving. The authorities say communication with Scott ceased at approximately 2:30 pm, Monday, July Seventh. Up to that point, family members had direct contact with Scott via cell phones and amateur radio, and he was talking calmly and rationally with us. The authorities were surprised to discover we had been communicating with Scott. Shortly thereafter Scott's telephone number was disabled. The authorities apologized to the family for accidently knocking down Scott's amateur radio tower he had been using to communicate with his wife. The authorities told the family they had Scott's telephone number changed. Family members requested the new phone number, and this request was denied. After all communication with family members was cut off, we know Scott would refuse to communicate with authorities due to his distrust of them. Later in the chain of events, the family requested that two family ministers be allowed to talk to Scott and was refused. We are strongly urging Scott to peacefully surrender to authorities. Your family is willing to support you in any possible way. Scott, we love you and are praying for you and your safety.



    July 8, 2003

    FREMONT -- State police are investigating what caused Tuesdays fire at the West Michigan home where a stand-off with a barricaded man resulted in the death of a Michigan State Police trooper.

    They say they don't know exactly what caused the fire, but say it was intentionally set to get the man out of the house in Fremont.

    The fire was smoldering this evening, and state police say they're not sure of the condition of the suspect.

    Trooper Kevin Marshall was shot Monday afternoon. He died during surgery at a nearby hospital. The 33-year-old Marshall was an eight-year veteran of the state police.

    The standoff began when police tried to serve the suspect with a warrant for criminal sexual conduct. The man barricaded himself in the home and shot at state police who tried to go in.


    While sifting through the remains of Woodring's home Thursday, police found a large cache of weapons, including the spent bullets of an AK-47--bullets consistent with the wounds Trooper Marshall received.

    Do they mean consistent like... Gunshot wounds? Okay, I know some consider .30's small caliber, but...
    Lotsa questions here for me..
    :uhoh: :what:
     
  7. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    A lot of questions here.
    What kind of weapon was Trooper Marshall shot with? The news reports say small caliber, but since when did they know anything about firearms? We have one report that says AK47. Should we trust the media to know that there are AKs available in .223 Remington and 5.45x39 in this country? Both would be a small caliber round.

    What about outside help? It sure looks like he may have had some. Where'd he get the truck? Was it stolen? No word at all.

    One thing that I can't understand. That's that this is basically a local story. I have seen nothing in the national media about this. Why? Fox News will preempt programming to cover a low speed chase of a misdemeanor suspect in LA, but they haven't covered this stand off at all.

    This is a very strange case.

    Jeff
     
  8. Intune

    Intune Member

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    I would not know any of this happened if I never came here. Not a peep from national news. Now the police are saying they did NOT start the fire on purpose. More in line with what one would hear from a police spokesman. This is some strange stuff. The officer is dead and buried and they can't say what caliber killed him? What weapons did the entry team have? They go in because it's either now or later?? That's crazy and it got 2 people killed. :barf:
     
  9. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    They say they don't know exactly what caused the fire, but say it was intentionally set to get the man out of the house in Fremont.

    Is this standard practice?:uhoh:
     
  10. dustind

    dustind Member

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    Darn, this whole story stinks in so many ways. There is so much information that makes it complex.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2003
  11. agricola

    agricola Member

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    There is no point in allowing communication between family members / friends that isnt supervised by the PD in this situation; you dont know what is being arranged or discussed and given the facts it could well be that at least partial arrangements were made to assist in the escape.

    woodring could have walked out of that house, into any precinct building or media centre and surrendered himself. he didnt, and now as the result of his own actions he is dead, just as Kevin Marshall is, also as a result of woodrings actions. Its just a pity that he didnt live to trial where they could have banged him away for life.

    oh and the thread title "militia chaplain is dead" - i know people bitched about the LEO dead posts but that is taking the mickey.
     
  12. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Good.

    Maybe the truth about what happened here won't get out to the masses, but frankly the elite media would just use this story as another anti 2A / anti gun owner / anti militia hit piece, giving the other side more fuel and not getting the truth out anyway.
     
  13. Intune

    Intune Member

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    What IS the truth here? I have read:
    1 grenade, 2 grenades.
    We meant for the house to catch fire, we didn't mean it.
    We knocked the radio tower down unintentionally, we cut communications from house.
    The family told officials where to get him in the safest possible manner, Mr. Woodring left us no choice we knew he was anti-gov but we thought doing doughnuts around his house in an Army APC would calm him down.
    Spent bullets from an AK-47? Not 7.62 or 5.56 casings that may be fired from a multitude of platforms? An example of a dumb reporter?
    Did they do forensics on spent bullets to ascertain they came from an AK-47 but can't tell us what the officer was hit with?
    We have to go in NOW because we don't want to sit around and have to do it in 30 days anyway???


    This is BAD juju to me, folks. Both families should be asking the question, WHY?
    :banghead: :uhoh:
     
  14. Intune

    Intune Member

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    agricola said: "woodring could have walked out of that house, into any precinct building or media centre and surrendered himself. (TRUE) he didnt, and now as the result of his own actions he is dead, just as Kevin Marshall is, (TRUE) also as a result of woodrings actions. (True&False) (He initiated this entire incident with his conduct at store. Police exacerbated the situation by ignoring family members, bringing in an APC and the key action that caused officer Marshall's death should be placed at the feet of the scene commander. Storming that house was the direct acion that blew this situation up. Woodring wasn't shooting at police on the perimeter when Kevin was killed.)

    Its just a pity that he didnt live to trial where they could have banged him away for life."
    Do you really think that's what they wanted? I don't. I envision high-fives back at the station. This whole thing stinks and two people are dead.
     
  15. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    I had heard this on the radio. They reported it as another cop killer goes down. We've had our share of cop killers around here as well.

    My condolences to the family and friends of the trooper.

    As far as the chaplain...a chaplain you say? He wasn't acting like any of the chaplains I've ever met.

    A sad tale all the way around.

    John
     
  16. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    More fodder for the militia nuts.

    WildwilllookatwhattheysayonstormfrontlaterAlaska
     
  17. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    I agree perfectly.
     
  18. agricola

    agricola Member

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    intune,

    from their actions the family may have contributed as much to his death as the Police. It doesnt read as if they made the PD aware that they had contact with him, and (from conjecture) it could be that the mast was deliberately taken down to prevent contact from the outside world. There is a strong suggestion that he had help from the outside also. We dont, and probably will never know, what the communications were between the family and woodring, but i'll stand amazed if they were of the "give yourself up variety".

    with regards to having a family member informed as of the best way to serve the warrant, one imagines many LEO will share my belief that had they done that woodring would probably not have been home that morning.

    the only thing that stinks about this is the respect accorded to woodring by some.
     
  19. Intune

    Intune Member

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    Sinner or Saint, militiaman or maintenance man, crook or cop, bum or barrister, janitor or judge, don't they all deserve respect at least in regards to the sanctity of life? I see no undue respect lauded upon Woodring. If anything, DISrespect was shown. We are citizens NOT serfs. There will be, MUST be a reason/reckoning for this type of action perpetrated upon this citizen by the powers that be. It may all make perfect sense when the final report is delivered. I hope it does. Two lives were lost. Not one important one and one peon.
     
  20. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    Medical Examiner: Woodring shot as many as four times



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    By Brett Thomas

    (Walker, July 14, 2003, 11:50 p.m.) New information on the autopsy of Scott Woodring shows he was shot as many as four times. The alleged killer of a Michigan State trooper was shot and killed by police Sunday morning.

    According to the Kent County Medical Examiner, the autopsy reveals that Scott Woodring died within seconds after being shot.

    Woodring was hit as many as four times, in Dr. Stephen Kohl's early estimate. Twice by a shotgun and once or twice with a rifle. The shot-gun blasts were fatal. One hitting Woodring in the head, the other in the throat. Dr. Cohle says Woodring does have a wound on his arm that is consistent with police reports that say he was turning and raising his rifle towards the officers.

    Other information revealed in the autopsy shows that Woodring had apparently been eating. He wasn't emaciated, but there was no food in his stomach at the time of his death.

    Monday police revealed more information about the week long search for Woodring. They believe he left the house around 8:30 p.m. on Monday, July 7th. They know that because an officer saw him, but no immediate action was taken.

    "At that time we had the original team, that included Kevin Marshall, and were in the process of withdrawing them and inserting a fresh team. And during that confusion is when the call was made that someone was out on the north side," said Inspector Barry Getzen with the Michigan State Police.

    Police say Woodring was finally located in Brunswick Sunday morning after he spoke to someone who knew him. That person quickly called police.

    Police are now focusing their attention on anyone that may have helped Woodring in his attempt to escape police. If you have any information, you're asked to call 1-800-991-8477.

    http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s= 1360522
     
  21. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Two lives were lost."

    Yup, one criminal and one good guy.

    A sad tale for all the family and friends left behind. It's a shame Mr. Woodring didn't do the right thing and just kill himself if he wanted to die. Then there would just be one dead man and the trooper could go home to his family.

    John
     
  22. bjengs

    bjengs Member

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    Well said, JBT.

    The righteous anti-militia work of Janet Reno and Bill Clinton carries on.
     
  23. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    Are you 100% sure that Woodring did kill that trooper?
     
  24. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Does anyone here believe that our nation is in the midst of a violent revolution?

    Or does anyone believe that things have gotten to the point that they should start one?

    If not, we need to remember that Scott Woodring is responsible for Trooper Marshall's death and his own.

    Given the information that is here, I believe that there should be a full investigation and we should be entitled to know what happened. But that said, the police started by attempting to serve a lawful arrest warrant on a felony suspect. And they initially tried a non-confrontational apporach.

    We can Monday Morning Quarterback this to death, but the fact remains that Woodring could have avoided all of this had he just peacefully submitted to arrest. I want to know what really happened as much as anyone. Let's not lose sight of what started the entire incident though.

    So as we affix the blame here and talk about if they only had listened to the family or if they only hadn't knosked down the radio tower, or any other thing they did in this fiasco, just remember that Scott Woodring forced the stand off. By his own choice, he refused to be peacefully arrested.

    If the state cannot compel someone to appear in court to answer charges, by force if necessary, then we might as well not have a state.

    If Scott Woodring was so afraid he would be murdered by the police if he was arrested, he could have called an attorney, called the media and turned himself in under the klieg lights.

    If Trooper Marshall was killed by a ND from a fellow team member it makes no difference. Oh, it'll make a difference in how they train and deploy, but Scott Woodring is still as responsible as if he had pulled the trigger himself.

    Jeff
     
  25. Intune

    Intune Member

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    He fled while officers were being relieved, police inspector says
    July 15, 2003
    BY CHRIS CHRISTOFF
    FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
    GRAND RAPIDS -- The fugitive who allegedly shot and killed a State Police trooper July 7 slipped past a police stakeout at his home near Fremont and into surrounding woods six hours after the shooting, a State Police spokesman said Monday.
    Scott Woodring, 40, was shot and killed by State Police officers early Sunday as he sat in a car at a home 4 miles from where his house stood before it burned down during his standoff with police.
    State Police Trooper Kevin Marshall of Rockford died from gunshot wounds July 7 as he and other police attempted to enter Woodring's rural home to arrest him. The day before, Woodring threatened Hesperia police serving an arrest warrant on charges of soliciting a minor for immoral purposes.
    Police said the bullets that killed Marshall match the type of ammunition from assault-style firearms Woodring owned.
    Woodring's family said Monday that police ignored suggestions to arrest Woodring at a family gathering July 4, where they say violence could have been avoided. Woodring's wife left the house early in the standoff. The couple had no children.
    State Police Inspector Barry Getzen said Monday that Woodring apparently fled his house while backup officers relieved those at the scene who were attempting to negotiate his surrender. Getzen said a man matching Woodring's description was seen near his house shortly before he was believed to have fled, but that his escape went unnoticed.
    Last Tuesday, police fired two percussion grenades into the house to flush out Woodring. The explosives may have set the fire that destroyed the house, police said. Police then learned Woodring had fled.
    Getzen said the investigation has turned to finding anyone who might have helped Woodring elude a police dragnet for five days. Aiding and abetting a fugitive accused in a felony is a felony.
    Woodring faced charges of murder, attempted murder and felony firearm in the death of a trooper.
    Getzen said police received more than 300 tips before Woodring was found outside the home. Its owner notified police after Woodring approached him early Sunday morning.
    Getzen said five of the eight officers who surrounded the car shot at Woodring after he stepped out of it brandishing a semiautomatic Colt .223 assault rifle.
    An autopsy showed Woodring died of multiple gunshot wounds. Getzen said he didn't know how many shots the officers fired.
    "They felt their lives were in danger," Getzen said.
    There was no indication Woodring fired any of the 20 rounds in the rifle, Getzen said.
    Getzen said police found a map of Hesperia, water, a flashlight with a red lens and burglary tools in the car. They also found writings with many biblical references.
    At a news conference, Getzen offered condolences to Woodring's family.
    Woodring's father, Gerald Woodring, insisted Monday that his son was not violent, and that State Police provoked him by storming his house.
    The father said he believed the original charge against his son -- soliciting a minor -- may have resulted from Woodring offering money to teenage girls to buy clothes, an act he said was captured on a gas station surveillance tape.
    He said his son, who has been linked with the anti-government, white supremacist Christian Identity movement, believed women should dress modestly.
    Gerald Woodring also said his son was very frugal and collected large amounts of money in gold and silver, in the belief that the U.S. financial system was on the verge of collapse.
    He said he was unsure of exactly how much money his son had: "I think I'm even going to be surprised when they're finished looking through" the debris of the burned house.



    Police Describe Weapons Found In Scott Woodring's Home


    July 10, 2003, 10:50 PM EDT

    WALKER -- Michigan State Police Inspector Barry Getzen says what police found in the rubble of Scott Woodring's home is as disturbing as what they didn't find.

    "There were two lever-action rifles that were found," Getzen said. "Three semi-automatic .22 rifles with banana clips fully loaded and one .12 gauge shotgun that was loaded." Police also found thousands of rounds of ammunition, a gas mask and military meals-ready-to-eat.

    Getzen continued:

    "The weapon carried by trooper Kevin Marshall at the time of entry on Monday has not been found to this time."


    Where is the weapon that fired the AK-47 rounds mentioned earlier? Hmmm?
     
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