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Milsurp Rifle for Hunting/SHTF?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by iLikethecold, Jun 12, 2011.

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  1. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Hey everyone, this is my first post so don't hate on me too much haha. I'm looking for a milsurp rifle that will serve as a hunting rifle and as a SHTF rifle. I've been looking into either buying a Mosin Nagant 91/30 or a Mauser K98, but I'm not really sure which to buy? :confused: So which rifle do you guys recommend?

    Also, what can you guys tell me about these two rifles in terms of?

    -Accuracy
    -Reliability
    -Ease of Use (Cleaning, Sighting in, etc.)
    -Ammo Price and Availability

    Thanks,
    iLikethecold
     
  2. Gord

    Gord Member

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    We don't do SHTF here - just a note. Home defense/self defense are permissible topics, but expect thread locks and cranky mods if SHTF is your main angle. Ditto zombies, the UN, rogue SWAT teams, etc. Keep it realistic and non-militant. :) Welcome to THR!

    I've owned a bunch of Mosins and ended up getting rid of 'em all - just weren't exciting to me anymore. If I had to do it over again, I'd save up a little more and get a Finn Mosin (I wouldn't want nor need a pristine one - fewer tears as it got dinged up and worn with use) from Pat Burns at http://gunsnammo.com/

    That said, they are a lot of gun for the price you pay, they're absolutely bombproof, accuracy is acceptable (they're milsurps, so they aren't lasers, but they also don't shoot as terribly as a lot of people like to claim - if they can't hit the broad side of a barn, it's their fault, not the rifle's) and the ammo is still fairly cheap and plentiful. Domestic manufacturers make 7.62x54R softpoints for hunting. Cleaning any bolt-action gun is simple, and the Mosin strips down fully into very few parts - you'd want to maybe practice disassembling/reassembling the bolt a few times, but that's about it.

    I've never owned or shot a Mauser, so I can't comment there - I will say, however, that 8mm ammo seems to have dried up in a big way.
     
  3. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Alright, I apologize. I wasn't thinking zombies or anything when I said SHTF haha. I was thing of a more extreme self defense scenario, that's all. But thanks for the response.
     
  4. RickMD

    RickMD Member

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    Comparing a Mosin Nagant to a K-98 Mauser is like comparing a Ford Pinto with a Cadillac. How many fine custom guns do you find built on Mosin Nagant actions? I'm not saying they won't shoot but they're aren't in the same class as a good 98 Mauser.
     
  5. Gord

    Gord Member

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    No apologies required, it's just worth noting as a heads up :)

    A great resource for the Mosin rifles is http://7.62x54R.net. For hunting purposes, keep in mind that the 91/30 is looong and unwieldy, and the M44 has an integral bayonet which, unless you like to spear your critters, does nothing but add weight to the front of the gun. If you think a longer sight radius would be useful (maybe you hunt from a treestand?), the 91/30 may be worth a look, but if you're going to be hunting in brush I'm guessing an M38 would serve you best.

    FWIW, folks who have Mausers rave about the quality and smoothness of the action - I know that much about 'em. :)
     
  6. Smokey Joe

    Smokey Joe Member

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    Mausers...

    I Like the Cold--Least expensive nice solid Mausers to be had currently are the Czech 24-47 and the Yugo M-48. But there are others. The German k98K is the original military Mauser, and those are available occasionally, but you pay more because (hushed pause...) it's a k98. There are also some Turkish Mausers in the shops, but these are "small ring" Mausers instead of "large ring" like the k98, so they are harder to modify. There are many other Mausers; getting to know them all is a whole sub-category of gun collecting knowledge all by itself.

    All of the above are 8mm, actually 7.92x57 JS to be precise. 8mm ammo for them has just about dried up on the military surplus market, but of course commercial 8mm is to be had at any LSG store.

    Another very nice military Mauser is the Swedish M-96, which you will pay a premium for because it's a Swede 96, but it is probably the most accurate of the military Mausers as issued. It is NOT 8mm, it is 6.5x55, which is a little harder to find in your LSG store but not impossible. There is zero military surplus 6.5x55 AFAIK. The M-96's were well taken care of by the Swedish military, and tend to be in relatively good condition.

    The steadily increasing scarcity of WWII-era milsurp ammo is an excellent reason to look into reloading as a way to feed these rifles. (Yes, I know, "increasing scarcity" sounds like an oxymoron! :D )

    As pointed out, the Mauser action is a very "nice" rifleman's action, while the Mosin action is simple, rugged, and foolproof. Personally, I don't like the safety of the Mosin AT ALL, and would not care to have one. I do have several Mausers.

    To answer your specific questions, as to between the k98 and the Mosin:
    Accuracy: Probably the k98.
    Reliability: For sheer ruggness, no other firearm comes close to the Mosin. However, the k98 is perfectly reliable--just don't use it as a crowbar.
    Ease of use: See note re. the Mosin safety above. There have been mentions of a rough trigger on Mosins--No personal experience. They're both military bolt actions, made to work in battlefield conditions while being shot at. So, no real difficulties with either one.
    Ammo price and availability: More cheapo ammo currently available for the Mosin. Commercial ammo for either, readily to be had, for ordinary commerical ammo prices.

    Now, all of the above said, you'll pay 2 or 3 times as much (or more) for the k98 as for the Mosin. Personally, I'd go with the Czech or Yugo Mauser, which will run you mebbe twice what the Mosin costs.

    Good luck in your hunt for a rifle. Please keep us posted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  7. hhmorant

    hhmorant Member

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    If you're open to other options, you might want to consider a K-31. Accuracy is generally very good, slick straight-pull action. And I've never seen a bad bore.

    The main down side is that ammunition isn't as cheap and readily available.
     
  8. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Thanks you for the response, all that info helped a lot :) I will keep you guys posted!
     
  9. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Thank you for the response, the website has a wealth of information :)
     
  10. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Alright thanks for the response :)
     
  11. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Yes I'm always open to other options, I'll look into it. Thanks for your response :)
     
  12. Sky

    Sky Member

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    Classic Arms
    A DIVISION OF U.S. ARMS LLC. check here for the Mosins and Swedes..Also look at the SkS for $289

    WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN STOCK A VERY SPECIAL SELECT LOT OF HEX
    RECEIVER M91/30 7.62X54R, BOLT ACTION RIFLES . ALL OF THESE RIFLES ARE CONSIDERED EXCELLENT PLUS CONDITION AND UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED THEY WILL ALL HAVE ALL FACTORY STAMPED MATCHING SERIAL #'S.

    I do not like their web sight but sometimes you can find stuff at a reasonable Price. Look for the other bigger and better sight that has the Swede and Mosins but did not find it....sorry...maybe someone else will chime in. Aimsurplus usually has a good selection along with better prices on ammo.
     
  13. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Thank you for the response, I'm checking out the site now :)
     
  14. BrocLuno

    BrocLuno Member

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    OK, assuming you need to have this mythical rifle at the cabin and you need to protect yourself/family and harvest meat - what rifle would I pick - neither. They both are fine to feed as long as the internet and UPS can get you what you need in the way of ammo, but as soon as things get dicey and you have moved to a remote site, neither is availble.

    What is? 30/30, 38SPL, 223, 308 and 30-06 will be stocked everywhere or left over in someones else's ammo locker to share. Ditto 22LR. Likely 12 and 20 Ga shells too. Beyond that, it's a crap shoot. Maybe 270 and 243 as tier two. Then what? Do you reload? Are you going to stock a few thousand rounds? Can everyone in you family handle a Mosin or M98 if you are disabled?

    Me, I'd be getting along with a 12Ga pump and 22LR bolt. And I have Mil-Surps - but they are for me and they are things for fun, not survival.
     
  15. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

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    Okay, lots of slanted gunshop lore, not a lot of useful impartial information for a newb.

    The Mosin is bombproof and eats cheap ammo. It's a modular brick of firepower with very little to adjust, very little to go wrong, and not a ton you can do if you get a mediocre-to-crappy one. But they're so cheap, the solution is hock it and get a new one, they cost less than a can of ammo. Long ones kick less than short ones, Finnish variations are much different and consistently twice the rifle the Russian ones are, but they cost twice as much.

    The Mauser comes in a dizzying array of flavors, though the most common are:

    Yugo M48: It's about as generic a Mauser as you can get. The action is slightly different than the majority of other Mausers, which doesn't mean anything unless you somehow break an extractor or firing pin, in which case the replacement will be about $10 more.

    Czech Vz24: About the most generic Mauser you can get. Sling swivel at the wrist means it's not comfortable for lefties. Otherwise vanilla.

    K98: Generally Russian captured and rebuilt, has Nazi Factor prodding value higher than the other two but functionally the same. Kicks pretty stout.

    Lastly, there's the Turk Mausers: There are a variety of different versions, but the TC AS FA ANKARA K.Kale rifles are '98 action, vanilla, and generally cheaper, more accurate, and heavier/less recoil than the three above. That said, there's a huge amount of variation in condition, so your chances of seeing a rough example the first time you look at one are higher than the others.

    There are a variety of other Mausers available in the secondary market- 7mm South American ones, 8mms, 6.5mms, etc. They're all basically decent rifles, but nuances and unpredictable supply (they're all in private hands/moving through gunshops for resale a second or third time) make them harder to catalogue.

    Personally, I would strongly suggest a Mosin. They're quite bombproof and usually under a hundred bucks. You really can't go wrong.
     
  16. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Thank you for the response, I wasn't planning on buying just a Mosin or Mauser though. It's just a start, but I do own a .22LR Bolt :)
     
  17. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Thank you for the response, the information was very helpful :)
     
  18. ErikO

    ErikO Member

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    Personally, I'd stick with the bolt-action .22lr or else get a .303 and a ton of reloading equipment plus non-electrical bullet casting. Either a metric ton of .22lr vipervelocity ammo or else enough reloading supplies to keep you going for a while. Milsurp is ok, but once you're out of 7.62x54R you've got a pike. ;)
     
  19. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...a milsurp rifle that will serve as a hunting rifle..." Hi. Nearly any rifle used in W.W. II will do that. Problem these days is finding one in decent condition. Mosin-Nagant rifles might be the exception. Finding hunting ammo in small places may be an issue though.
    Milsurp sights tend to be poor as well.
     
  20. ripp

    ripp member

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    A bolt action became obsolete as a defensive arm with the advent of the AK 47 in large numbers. Get an sks, with good softpoint ammo it is at least as much of a big game rifle as a 30-30 ever was, too.
     
  21. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Haha well a pike is better than your own bare hands! :p I do plan to start reloading and stockpiling ammo though. Thanks for the response :)
     
  22. bigedp51

    bigedp51 member

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    I have MN and Mausers and they would not be my first choice because.....................................................................

    A No.4 Enfield is a better weapon with its aperture sight and old farts like me with chronologically gifted eyesight can shoot them and still be very accurate. (reads as no scope needed)

    Besides between now and the end of the world you can still get even if you lose a postal match to the Australians. :rolleyes:

    postalshoot.gif

    And anyone foolish enough with an AK to attack your position would be fighting a loosing battle.

    IMGP2207-1.gif

    Remember "aimed" rapid fire hits more targets than spray and pray
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  23. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    Yes very true, thanks for the response.
     
  24. Tenacious B

    Tenacious B Member

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    What part of the country are you in and what type of game to you plan to hunt with this rifle?

    Personally, I wouldn't want to use any of the rifles mentioned for self defense due to their length, low capacity, highly penetrative ammo, and high noise level (not that any gun is quiet without a suppressor).

    If you don't plan to hunt anything larger than a deer you might want to look into the SKS and Ak47. Both were made in the millions and are easy to find, the SKS being a bit cheaper and a slightly older design. Both shoot the 7.62x39 round which is no slouch and can be found everywhere - surplus and commercial. For equivalent quality of ammo the 7.62x39 costs about the same as 9mm, so it is basically the cheapest center fire rifle round available.

    That being said, whatever you get go ahead and get a Mosin too. For $100 you really can't go wrong.
     
  25. iLikethecold

    iLikethecold Member

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    A bolt action would not be my first pick for a defensive weapon either, I would much rather prefer a 12 Gauge, or an AR-15 for self/home defense. But I don't have the cash for that right now haha. Thanks for the response
     
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