Min and Max Load

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TB336

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I am trying to load 45 ACP and I am bouncing back and forth between two powders. Universal being at 6.4 and BE-86 being at 7.9. I know I can't get right on the money for those and the closet I could get with universal was 6.5. And the closet I could get with BE-86 was 7.25. What are your recommendations for which one to go with given those two weights. I'm shooting out of a colt 45 competition edition or glock 21.
Thanks for the help in advance
 
I may be misunderstanding the question, but what is the trouble with getting the charge weights you want. I understand getting to within a tenth of a grain with some powder measures, but over half a grain shy with BE86? Is it a metering problem? Also, are these just plinking rounds or are they for competition? Also, what bullet are you using? I'd have to check some load data, but for 230 grain, those charges sound a little warm to me
 
My apologies, these are 185 JHP. Preferably for self defense. I'm using my Lee disk powder charger but I can't get the perfect amount for either and was wondering whether it was better to go over the top with universal or under weight with BE-86.
 
I would try to bring universal down and the BE-86 up. Both within the low data ranges and shoot a few at different weights before coming to an specific load.
 
So I recalibrated my scale and now I'm within 2 tenths of a grain variant of 6.4 for universal using a 185 gn JHP. However, there is a great possibility that there are seven round at roughly 7 grains. But the bottle says that the OAL should be about 1.195 and I'm actually running them longer at 1.25. Given the extra length in the rounds is is safe to shoot the ones around 7?
 
@TB336 given the information you have posted. I would pull what you have and start over. It really sounds like you need to do some basic research and reading of reloading manuals. You didn’t say what max for universal is but .6 over intended amount really isn’t where you want to be and if it’s near or over max the minimal extra length might not be enough to keep pressure safe.
 
I've loaded 9mm tons of times, but this is my first venture into 45acp. So I do appreciate all the advice. Thanks
 
You should always start low and work up. The data in a load manual is the results they got with THEIR brass, powder, primer and bullet. If you don't have the exact components they used, you won't get the same results.
If you are 2 tenths under the max charge, that's a good place to be and you likely wouldn't notice the difference if you did load some at max. More importantly, any bad guy you shot wouldn't know the difference either
 
TB336 said:
I've loaded 9mm tons of times,
Click to expand...

No offense intended, but it doesn’t sound like it.

Loading over book max is not something done on a whim because the Lee charging disk couldn’t dispense the proper amount.

TB336 said:
Given the extra length in the rounds is is safe to shoot the ones around 7?
Click to expand...

No. You have an idea how it works, but it doesn’t quite work that way. It isn’t linear. Within the window of the case actually seating a bullet, making it shorter exponentially increases pressure, but making them longer doesn’t exponentially decrease pressure.
Pull them down. You have a Inertia hammer, yes? Or set them aside until you do.


Jim Watson said:
While I doubt 7 grains of Universal will blow up a name brand .45, I am very concerned over how you got there. Further, even 6.4 is the Hodgdon maximum, not the place to start. And I wouldn't be loading Defensive ammunition at the by guess and by gunboard.
Click to expand...

Bears repeating. Know why you are doing what you are doing. Don’t guess. That’s how you show your kids how your pinky doesn’t work anymore while you clean your glass eye.

Further yet, the Colt Comp1911 (nice choice by the way.) could digest things the Glock would crack under.
Or vice versa, a competition pistol is not usually one that is carried, depending on the competition.


Hey, you didn’t settle for a $400 ATI commander. You bought a Colt.
Don’t settle for haphazard ammunition.
Especially if you’re going to carry it. (Handloads for defense issues aside...) Rounds that are too hot are just as bad for reliability as weak ones are.
Try the mod and load choice rounds at book charges.
 
When I start a new powder load for a given cartridge on the Auto disc, I start with a given bushing number and weigh the load, dump the powder and document it’s weight. Move on to the next bushing and document the weight and bushing number until you achieve the given powder weight min and max load values. That way you know which bushing number to start load development with.

it’s time consuming but well worth it in the end as you can reference your load weights for like powders (flake, stick exc.) when moving to a different powder.
 
All advice being considered as suggested. I also appreciate the constructive criticism. All of this will help in the future. Thanks guys
 
As always, start low and work your way up.

That being said. I have found that Universal does better at mid to almost max ranges for 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP. At the start load I get very sooty brass.

And there is no reason why the Lee Auto Disk can't get you close to what powder charge you want. I use the Auto Disk for all my pistol (H Universal) and 223 (H335) reloading. Universal meters really well in the Auto Disk, my charges only vary by + 0.1 grain when checked with my PACT digital scale and my beam scale.
 
Dear Beginner: YOU NEVER go over the top load. You start at the start load and work up.
You might want to consider that the powders you have aren't ideal for .45 Auto and any extra velocity you get is meaningless for self-defense. The .45 Auto with Bullseye powder was designed from the ground up based on self-defense from drugged-up enemies.
 
Only Lee, as far as I can tell, calls a START load a MINIMUM load. It isn't a minimum load.
>Universal being at 6.4 and BE-86 being at 7.9
Are these start or max loads?
I have no data for BE-86. For Universal, I show 5.8gn for a target load, 6.0gn for a start load, and 6.4 Max. Never start at a max load.
 
The OP is going by the label on the Universal bottle but since it includes a reduce by 10% to start notice, that ought to have been taken care of by an observant loader.
Alliant's posted maximum load for a 185 gr .45 is indeed 7.9 grains BE86 but you have to read the previous page to get the -10% start recommendation.
 
Last edited:
I'm reading that the OP's problem is with his powder measure. Few fixed capacity powder measures will be "right on" with a noted powder charge. Lots of things affect a "volume" powder charge. I'd say either get an adjustable powder measure and/or find a disk. dipper, etc/ that throws a charge short of the target weight and trickle up. And as stated clearly above; always start low and work up if necessary...
 
Livelifes screw mod works well for the Lee Disk measure, I used it before getting another measure.
Another option for about $40 would be to pick up a Lee autodrum measure. (adjustable to get what you want)
I used my Lee disk measure to load lots of ammo and still use it on occasion but for the cost of a little more than a lb of powder it is worth getting the Lee Autodrum IMO


So MAX with a 185 and Universal is 6.4, you don't really want to go over MAX unless you have carefully worked up to it and have a really, really good reason to. (I don't care to )
I guess you are using the .71 disk to get that charge with Universal, so without doing something to the disks you would need to step back to the .66 disk which should give you about 6gr of Universal, which is the start charge for a 185.

I would try the screw mod on the .76 disk and that should let you get the charges you want for MAX loads.
Most of the time I have found that less than MAX loads tend to be more accurate, and are more pleasant to shoot.
Alliant lists MAX charges in their data so you should reduce it 10% to start, the Universal bottle also lists a MAX charge, both of those should be worked up to carefully.

Have fun, be safe.
 
The Hodgdon website only lists data for one 185 Grain bullet with Universal which is the Hornady 185Gr JSWC

Hodgdon
Universal
Bullet diameter 0.451"
OAL Length 1.135"
Start loaf 6.0 grains
FPS 908
Pressure 13,100 CUP
Max load 6.4 grains
FPS 977
Pressure16,800 CUP
 
Right.
Hodgdon made some odd choices for bullets to test loads with. I doubt there are many folks out there loading jacketed SWCs to 977 fps; better they should have gone with a hollow point like the OP wants.

Stranger yet, they went with the (discontinued) Hornady flat point for a 230 gr bullet and then show a lead roundnose at the same 1.200" OAL. I am sure the deep seating = reduced powder space leads to very conservative loads, but the short OAL sure confuses the poor novice recipe hunters.
 
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