Minimum Caliber for Self-Defense

[jad0110]

Shot placement. Weapon reliability and convenience (does it work and will you carry it?). These are IMHO, the first and foremost factors in selecting a defensive sidearm. Once you have found a particular platform that meets your requirements, select a load that gives at least X amount of penetration. The FBI minimum is 12", so that can be used as a benchmark.

So in that regard, a 22 for some people can meet most of those requirements, though I'm not sure about penetration depth, that's probably kinda dicey with a 22. I would not be above using a 22. I certainly would not want to get shot with one. The biggest problem I have with the round is that it is a rimfire, and rimfires tend to misfire more than centerfires.

My mother is just now looking into a gun for protection. I've taken her to the range once, and from what I've gather thus far, she is extremely recoil sensitive. I even think my father's all-steel 9mm Baby Eagle will be far too much for her. So a 22LR is probably going to be the best option for her; it certainly beats nothing.

As for felt recoil between 380 and 9mm, it depends on the platform. I can barely hold onto a tiny Kel-Tec P3AT in 380, but that isn't a fair comparison to the somewhat larger/heftier 9mms. I personally find the recoil of a steel 380 and a steel single stack 9mm to be about the same, but I've met people that sware the 380 has less felt recoil and vice versa. Just goes to show that felt recoil is highly subjective, and what feels good to one may not feel good to another. How a particular gun fits in a particular set of hands has a big impact on how recoil feels.

With careful load selection, the 380 can be a very viable choice. So can the "lowly" 32 ACP.

My primary defensive handgun calibers are 38 Special and 45 ACP. I am comfortable with either, but both are handgun rounds. Power is sacrificed for portability. I carry one or two everywhere I can (even at home), but when at home I have a 12 gauge nearby that I can access fairly quickly. And when I prove my AR to be reliable enough, that will be an option too.

 

[gretske]

jad0110

You make very good points. The primary considerations should be concealability and accuracy. ”Stopping power“ is important, but delivering multiple shots of any size trumps that.

I have a Beretta TomCat Inox that I am very accurate with at 5-7 yards. At that distance, I can empty the magazine (7+1) in under 2.5 seconds, within a 3” circle. I can't imagine a situation where that would not prove a deterrent.

I also have a Glock 27, .40, that is even more accurate, and obviously delivers a much more potent load. But, I can't stick it in a pants pocket as easily as the TomCat, so I end up carrying the TomCat more than the G27. I feel secure with either one, and let practicality make the final decision.

Finally, why worry about recoil? First, you should practice and shoot until you get over “recoil shyness.“ We are talking about self-defense, not recreational plinking. Should you have to use it, you will not notice the recoil nearly as much as the pain in your ears from the shots. Shoot enough so that the recoil does not interfere with your ability to be accurate. Your comfort is not an issue in matters of life and death.

Finally, if you just can't get over recoil anxiety, buy yourself a good knife, or a big dog, or both. Guns have recoil, and more powerful guns that are small enough to carry, have even more powerful recoil.

 

[ice monkey]

I get a big kick out of this question … not because I take it lightly, but rather because I wonder sometimes if people are asking, “what’s the minimum self defense caliber” vs. “what’s the minimum hero caliber?”

Most people here on THR are great, and I buy into the “Accuracy first, then speed, then power.” Posted by sqlbullet, but when I was looking to buy my CCW self defense weapon … man if it didn’t start with a 4, my friends and the guys at the range were all over me.

In my humblest of opinions​

Handgun self defense – Shoot and get the heck out of there - find a cop or a long gun.

Handgun hero defense – Shoot, run after the assailant, and shoot them through the wall he/she is hiding behind, blasting the whole way.

Seriously, statistically on average not many self defense shots are ever fired, and more often than not they are shot in a dark environment. Plus, most assailants aren’t going to run after you once you have shot at them. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen, or that the person you’re going to have to shoot at isn’t driving a car at you that you can’t avoid … but the chances are low, very low. So you generally need only concern yourself with the penetration of flesh, your ability to handle recoil and being able to hit what you’re shooting at … and perhaps the flash of a handgun at night.

That leaves you with a great deal of calibers that work well for self defense.

Myself personally, I went with the .380acp. The recoil, loaded with Buffalo Bore’s, allows me to shoot accurately – more than once. The flash and report is low, and it’s destructive on flesh (even through leather coats.) Plus the weapons loaded for .380 are concealable, allowing one to carry two weapons of the same caliber easily. For example: a Sig or Browning on your side, and a Ruger or NAA in your pocket.

That’s how I see it anyway … Your mileage may vary. I certainly wouldn’t want to go less than a .380, but the .380 does all I need of it. Shoot – hit – hurt/kill – and get out of there, that’s what I need. If I understand right, below the .380 the only self defense weapon worth looking at is a .22WMR. I think it has a 42% one shot stop %. But I could be wrong… It’s been said, today’s bullets are awesome. After all is said and done … half the fun is finding out what works for you! And in case you were wondering … yes my buddies gave me a real going over when I pulled out my Sig 232 in .380 acp … Until they saw me hit everything I aimed at lol.

Oh and btw … I can feel a difference between a 9mm and a .380, but that may be me. And yes, the LCP kicks, but who cares, a LCP (for me) is last ditch anyway …

If I was fighting a war, .357.

 

[dmazur]

my answer: buy the biggest one you can comfortably shoot and control reasonably well for follow-up shots.

Agreed.

My wife used to carry a .380, and complained about that! Eventually, with reading articles about "stopping power" and the like, she came around to larger calibers and now is quite comfortable with a .45 Officer's Model.

Well, she still complains about the weight.

There is no best answer to this question. I saw a poster showing a large frame revolver with the caption ".44Mag - Ending the .45 vs 9mm caliber war"

However, this ignores the issue of controllability. Here's an interesting article about the collaberation between Clint Smith and S&W on the latest "Thunder Ranch Special", which happens to be a .44 Special revolver -

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_172_28/ai_n6204168/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

Anyway, I might recommend this gun (and caliber) as a minimum for self-defense. Why? Because it's simpler than the 1911, and doesn't require grip strength to run a slide. Personally, I like the 1911, but I believe you have to be careful in recommending it to newer shooters.

 

[Rugerlvr]

I know someone who regularly carries a .22 Magnum and a .32 Beretta. He got himself a Ruger LCP and seems to be switching over to that, thank goodness.

Personally, I don't think I'd go less than .380.

 

[Plink]

I used to consider the .380 as the bare minimum for self defense, but considering all the small 9mms, that's where I personally draw the line now. I prefer something bigger and generally carry a small .45, but the bigger the cartridge the harder it is to control. This is where practice comes in. Find your own limit as to what you can shoot quickly and accurately with, and practice, practice, practice.

 

[R.W.Dale]

32 ACP - Most of the smaller caliber firearms such as this caliber and the .380 ACP are carried as "back-up" guns by law enforcement thus the increase in data from actual police shootings. The CorBon 62 gr. JHP round was involved in 17 shootings with 11 one shot stops which achieved a 65% rating followed closely by the Winchester 60 grain Silvertip which was fired 162 times and caused 104 stops for a 64% rating. The Federal 65 grain Hydra-Shok and the CCI 60 grain Gold Dot achieved one shot stops 63% and 60% of the time.

What's the problem? Shoot the attacker twice even with a .32 and he'll be over 120% stopped. I don't know bout ya'll but I ain't planning on shooting just once

 

[burningsquirrels]

I ain't planning on shooting just once

someone finally said it, lol. hence, get the biggest you can rapidly shoot accurately. for me, that caliber is a 40sw.

 

[ugaarguy]

Debunked by whom? I'd like to read this. I'm an engineer; Marshall's methodology appears correct - it's exactly how I would perform such a study. I can't comment on the data as I have not reviewed it.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/undeniable-evidence.htm

 

[R.W.Dale]

someone finally said it, lol. hence, get the biggest you can rapidly shoot accurately. for me, that caliber is a 40sw.

I feel concealibility also factors in big, the law requires it. To that end I chose a 32 Kel Tec, the current crop of locked breach mouse guns are still a great deal smaller and lighter and easier to conceal than the current crop of small 9mm's.

I can shoot my 10mm as fast and as accurately as my .32 at self defense ranges. But I can't hide the 10 in a way that allows me to be as active as I would like. I can't hide a compact handgun in a big three chambering and still be able to go fishing or crawling around underneath cars in a junkyard without being "made". Anyone can hide a 1911 if all they wear are smoking jackets and the keep their arms at their sides standing upright all day long.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

I would say 38 special +P would be the minimum, its low blast, low flash, moderate recoil, most people can shoot this caliber accurately. However, I would prefer the capacity of a 9mm, most are at least 15 rounds, compared to 5 in the revolver.

 

[Howaido]

The rounds I keep...

loaded for defensive duty in handguns are as follows:

9mm +p 124 gr. gold dots
.38 special +p 135 gr. gold dots
.357 mag 125 gr. golden saber

So, I guess my minimum for sd would be the .38 special +p gold dots.

 

[XDShooter07]

I carry a .32 pretty frequently and it doesn't bother me a bit. Remember that criminals are in the business of self preservation. They pick easy targets and use the element of surprise. If you're lucky enough to get a chance to draw and it's even a warranted escalation of force then more than likely you have an upper hand. No criminal is going to stick around and get shot at for your wallet or your car; they're going to get out and choose an easier target. The criminal doesn't know whether the big flash & bang in their face is a .32 or a .45; all they know is it means they might not live. Things are different in a war or in a tactical situation when someone is going to be expecting gunfire at them but when their not expecting it their gonna scoot and fast.

 

[Youngster]

If I have a choice in the matter? 12 gauge or full power rifle with expanding ammo.

 

[Master of Arms]

Well I`ve not read all of the statenments here but the first thing to think of is placement,placement,placement.

For your own personal defense you should choose a caliber that you can handle. In other words, shoot quickly and accurately.

Another question is, do you have a Concealed Carry Permit?? If so, we can eliminate any question of size because if your state is like mine, you can open carry.

Next would be stopping power. Again placement is important but in my opinion, a .40 caliber is an awsome choice. It has great energy and velocity.

 

[Master of Arms]

Brandon, my state, as many others has some sort of old open carry law but as with mine, there are problems with it. I can carry openly as long as there is NO part of the firearm concealed. This means no holster etc. Get it? I couldn`t even tie a string around it and carry it. But since I have my CCP I can now carry it in my holster somewhat openly. That was my point to you. I don`t know where you live but most southern states have such laws. You can check a ballistics website such as Guns and Ammos website and you can find out about the power of most calibers. Hope this helped

 

[Phydeaux642]

Hasn't this been done already?

 

[WVMountainBoy]

You go with what you can shoot. You pick the gun that fits your hand. Knowing a 10mm is such an awesome performer doesn't do you a bit of good if the gun is too big to manipulate. I'm my friend's resident "go-to" about guns and whenever they come to me and ask about a defensive gun I don't recommend anything. I take them to the gun store and have them pick up and work the slides/controls on several models. Then once we find the size that they can deal with I take them out and let them touch off a few of my weapons to see how sensitive to recoil they are. If they like a full size glock but flich at a .45's recoil then I know to step it down a notch and have them go with a .40. The only exception to this process is with long guns. I usually tell them all that the first deer rifle is a marlin 30.30 and the first shotgun is a H&R 12 gauge. My lady friends with tiny hands often have to choose from the 9mm bracket because of hand size/recoil sensitivity and I tell them they're not under-gunned that all thats left is regular practice. My rule with them is they shouldn't carry it anyplace till they've run 200 rounds through it by themselves. That means that they've familiarized themselves with the gun, gotten confidence that it will go boom when it needs to, and found out if the weapon is reliable. I could go on and on with the dance I usually go through with new owners...but it would deserve its own thread.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Enough is enough

Question asked. Question answered --and answered -- and answered . . . .

After a while, the same old answers become tiresome. And people start getting testy and personal, and ultimately, abusive. This won't do, friends.

If you've had an entry deleted from this thread, take it as a warning not to be argumentative, juvenile, and spiteful. You will get no other warning.

CLOSED

Johnny Guest
THR Staff