Minneapolis church wants to buy back guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by wiscoaster, Sep 28, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This Minneapolis church is planning to buy back guns, "no questions asked":

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/09/25/we-have-to-do-something-north-minneapolis-bishop-hosts-gun-buyback-amid-rising-homicides/

    Aren't they going to risk being in violation of the law? What if the gun they're buying was used in a crime? What if the individual selling them the gun is a prohibited person? What if the person is not a US citizen or a resident of Minnesota? Wouldn't all those purchases be illegal firearms transfers?
     
  2. Ohen Cepel
    • Contributing Member

    Ohen Cepel Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,794
    Location:
    Where they tell me to go
    Buy back? Were they the church's in the first place? Sorry, but I just hate that term.

    I can see them breaking many laws. Not sure if you can do a FTF transfer there but that is pretty much what they are doing. Not to mention possibly messing with ongoing investigations, etc.

    Wrong on many levels. I can see them wanting to do something but this is not a smart move for them.
     
  3. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    87
    If a liberal organization wants to buy up guns to get them off the street, then all illegalities of the transactions are ignored.
    Or so it seems.
     
    tommy.duncan, Meeks36, Bang! and 5 others like this.
  4. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    12,381
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Maybe the ATF should show up and ask some questions.......
     
  5. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,855
    Location:
    south Florida
    My best guess... is that well meaning outfit already has links to local politicians and every weapon they buy has a DESTROY THIS destination, usually aided and abetted by their local cops. We were never involved in any gun buy backs in my city down here in south Florida -but from what I've heard locally the junk folks turn in for cash is usually the kind of junk iron you'd be afraid to load a cartridge into....

    I have no quarrel with anyone trying to "do something" about street crime - but have zero confidence that what they're planning to do will have any effect at all on folks doing bad things with firearms...
     
  6. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2,353
    Location:
    ohio
    I have no issues with it. It’s not the government....it’s not mandatory.....and second-amendment supporters are generally not the targeted audience. If it puts a small dent in guns in an “at-risk” environment, then good for them. Only downside I can see would be collectibles in the hands of unknowing widows and offspring.
     
    Golfanaticshooter and alsaqr like this.
  7. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,053
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    The preacher probably has an FFL or some one in the congregation does. :neener:
     
  8. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    4,949
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I've always wondered very similar things. If it's No Questions Asked, what's to prevent an out-of-state resident from dumping a handgun that's been used in a homicide, confident that the buyer will destroy it?

    That said, this is Legal, so let's put in a couple of statutes. First, federal law, and edited on the assumptions: (a) that the church does not hold an FFL; and (b) is only engaged in buying firearms, not selling them:
    So we can see that under federal law, there are some circumstances under which the church might violate federal law in conducting its buyback. For example, if it (or members acting on its behalf) knew or had reason to know that the seller was from out of state, purchasing a gun from the seller would violate section (a)(5). If the church knew or should have known that the gun was stolen or that it had a defaced serial number, buying the gun would violated sections (j) or (k), respectively.

    I'm not licensed in MN, but I try to find time to do a little digging and to see what its law has to say on the matter.
     
    Hartkopf likes this.
  9. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,528
    Location:
    N Idaho
    danmc and troy fairweather like this.
  10. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    OK, thanks for doing that research. I guess the key word in the law is "knowingly" and if they're doing it "no questions asked" it's probably legal.
     
    Spats McGee likes this.
  11. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,528
    Location:
    N Idaho
    I don't think so. Look up Minnesota Statute 624.7132. Unless they stick to rifles and shotguns only (which I think is unlikely), they'll definitely be breaking the law with this "buyback".
     
  12. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    12,291
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    A number of off-topic post have disappeared. This is the Legal Forum, so we talk about what the law is. So if it turns out that anything resembling discussion of the legal issues is done, the thread will be closed.
     
  13. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    I guess it all depends on who takes possession of the firearms at the "buy-back". I wonder of any of the church members are undergoing a NICS check.
     
  14. Craig_VA
    • Contributing Member

    Craig_VA Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    771
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Unless Minnesota has a Universal Background Check (UBC) law like Virginia just put into effect, under which all firearm transfers require FFL and background check, there is no need for a NICS check at the church when buyer and seller are both MN state residents. Even if volunteer church members are acting as clerks (agents) of the church enterprise (a legal entity) to buy the guns from attendees they should not need a background check.
     
  15. climbnjump

    climbnjump Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    674
    Location:
    Upper Midwest
  16. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,528
    Location:
    N Idaho
  17. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,528
    Location:
    N Idaho
  18. Drail

    Drail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,343
    I always love it when some organization does a "gun buyback" and then a couple of guys with FFLs set up a table right next to them and tell people that they'll beat any offer the organization makes. Guess who takes most of the guns?
     
    Darkhorse and troy fairweather like this.
  19. natman

    natman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,846
    Gun "buy backs" are running a fencing operation for stolen guns. Steal a gun, sell it back (often to the police), get money, all at no risk.
     
    P5 Guy and Darkhorse like this.
  20. climbnjump

    climbnjump Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    674
    Location:
    Upper Midwest
    If folks from the church just set up a table on the sidewalk without notice to the city and without police presence and with the intent to keep for themselves any "purchased" firearms, then not legal.

    But that's not what is happening.

    If instead they get approval from the local government (city) and are supervised by local law enforcement (Mpls Police Dept), who actually take possession of any firearms brought in, then it is "legal".

    Folks are getting hung up on the fact that the church is the "face" of this thing and ignoring who is doing what behind the scenes. Also, similar events have been held in the city in years past, so there is history there.
     
  21. huntsman

    huntsman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    4,630
    Location:
    ohio's northcoast
    Buy low sell high make a profit, maybe collections are down?
     
    troy fairweather and whughett like this.
  22. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,053
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    The local was of interest also. Laying blame in the wrong direction ignoring the real
    issues.
     
  23. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    9,252
    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    As the sunset of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Ban approached, both the Centers for Disease Control and the National Research Council independently conducted reviews of empirical academic research into the effectiveness of the AWB and other gun control measures.

    By empirical academic research (that means research that would pass the door at the American Society of Criminology for discussion, or eventually be published in a LAW JOURNAL under peer referee NOT the OP-ED BS used by advocacy groups or politicians, or the crap student editors allow to appear in Law Reviews working under the noses of their professors like John Donohue with his anti-gun agenda), BUY BACKS were found to have no measurable impact for controlling bad behavior by bad people by both the CDC and NRC reviews.

    Buy Backs are Voodoo Criminology: purely symbolic gestures, like burning Beatles' White Albums after the Helter-Skelter murders by the Manson family.

    The Minneapolis church wants to "buy back" guns, in an empty symbolic gesture, that does not impact bad behavior by bad people, but demonizes gun owners? Phaw!

    I have a Noble Model 40 12ga shotgun that I bought for spare parts at a gun show for $8. It lacked a stock and cartridge lifter. I suspect it was salvaged for spare parts to fix another Model 40. Turned out the extractor was not compatible with my Noble Model 66, but I found it worked safely as a singleshot and the magazine could be used as a manual feed reserve. I added a handgrip, and used it as a test bed for BP blanks, rock salt, bird bombs, Red Meteor flares, dragon's breath. and other crap ammo I did not want to use in a good shotgun. I could get more than $8 for it in a typical Buy Back. I would Deep-Six it in a TVA lake before I would turn it in in a buyback. I will not participate in a fraud liuke a gun buy back, even for $200.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  24. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    4,949
    Location:
    Arkansas
    As it appears that anything resembling discussion of the legal issues is in fact done, closed.
     
    alsaqr likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice