Missed it, thank god!

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by kmw1954, May 7, 2021.

  1. Virginia Jim

    Virginia Jim Member

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    Most likely a cumulative failure. The gun began to fail with early rounds and the last shot finished the process.
     
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  2. ballman6711

    ballman6711 Member

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    Yes, most, maybe all, modern guns are designed to handle some over pressure. But how much, 5%, 10%, 100%? And for how long, 1 round, 5 rounds, 1000 rounds?

    The problem is that each over pressure round puts more strain on the gun, and metal fatigue and eventually failure happens, and that means a damaged gun and possible injury to one or more people.

    Based on this, I don't think it was "something else". Sounds like this guy was over loading his rounds purposely and it caught up to him. I hope he's ok, and more importantly I hope nobody else gets hurt due to his loads.

    chris
     
  3. Kaldor

    Kaldor Member

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    I wouldnt push 8.6gr of CFE Pistol behind a 230 even in a modern gun, thats just crazy high. Im not afraid to push some hot loads, but not anything like that.
    It could have been a squib, but we would have to see the gun in question to know for sure. @kmw1954
     
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  4. swg1

    swg1 Member

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    I would have sworn no one else was in the clearcut with me when I tested those loads!

    Seriously, made up some loads from Speer #10 for my BHP back in the 80's. They shot like that. Nice group. When I picked up the brass it was as pot-bellied as I am now. Pull the loads apart at home, checked the tension and I never could figure out why. My beautiful BHP never shot the same afterwards either, hammered it pretty hard. I believe that was the day in my early loading career that I learned, you load one, fire one, examine one rather than load a mag and test.
     
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  5. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    Oh man...that sounds like a dyslexic reloader going straight for max loads. That is unfortunate. Looking up 45 data on hogdon's site, they only have 2 loads, a 230g FMJ flat point, with a coal of 1.200. The other is a lead round nose. 6.8g of CFE-P is the max for the FMJ, and 1.200 seems like it would be on the short side for a round nose. Add in some bad neck tension/little or no crimp for a little setback, 8.6g, nearly 3 grains over max, yeah...something is going to let go.
     
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  6. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

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    I'll take 37 squibs over 1 overcharged round anyday, twice on Sundays!
     
  7. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    I learned my lesson years ago. I had a bunch of Unique that needed to go so I loaded some 40 S&W with a medium load without a work up. Don't remember the bullet. Only found one load listed for that powder. Those babies would buck and snort. Couldn't hit a barn with them and I had 200 to burn up. The chrono read 1150 fps. When I got all of my brass back I loaded a ladder load with Universal. Best load was 950 fps out of 5 different loads. Now I always start at the bottom.
     
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  8. Jonesy814

    Jonesy814 Member

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    Where would a new reloader even find component?
     
  9. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    yeah! I’m also dyslexic, but with reloading and everything else. I have a process of checking my double check by repeating QC over and over and over.
     
  10. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    you have to wait in line. Sportsman, gets shipments on Wednesday and post on their FB once delivered
     
  11. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

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    Today's update;
    This guy actually came back yesterday afternoon, talked with our GM and actually shot again. The first news of importance is after he arrived home from the ER Weds. he immediately sold all of his reloading equipment and supplies. Stitches to his face and finger.

    GM as I said talked to him and yes it appears they were loaded to 8.6gr of CFE Pistol and were also possibly a double charged compressed load. This was not a squib! GM also said the guy stated he will be OK but was still in terrible pain. Apparently he has not been permanently banned.

    So I guess this also ties into the 1k 9mm rounds I was given by a fellow RO that had someone load them for him and he shot some with all sorts of problems and multiple squibs. Of what I have pulled apart already I have found no consistency with these powder charges and the neck tension also seems to be all over the place.

    I too know of very few people that I trust enough to fire their reloaded bullets. Even then I only fire it in their guns, not mine. I also do not offer to reload for anyone besides my own family and only allow people to fire my loads only in my guns that it has been tested in by me.

    Now today while working at the 300yd rifle range I had someone come in and they told me that there were going to be shooting first time hand loads and asked if I wanted to check it first. There really isn't anything to check while at the range with no measuring tools other than to see if it would chamber and extract. So I told him to load one at a time and I'd look at them. Then to load 2 at a time to see if they would function and fully cycle.

    Results were they all fired, were fairly accurate though probably a little under powered for his AR. I was grateful that he gave me a heads-up with these loads so I could keep a watchful eye on him.
     
  12. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    wow!!!

    With all the new reloader due to ammo prices, can see more of these issues happening. If I was you, I would invest in the best Safety glasses possible.
     
  13. Thomasss

    Thomasss Member

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    Your company may want to check out emergency regulations. In Wisconsin a "victim" only pays for emergency services when he is transported to a medical facility. Many people refuse medical treatment thinking they will have to pay for huge medical bills.
     
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  14. WVRJ

    WVRJ Member

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    There seems to be a trend for new reloaders to want to go from newbie to wizard in the matter of a couple days.They don't seem to realize what they're messing around with.I'm a member of several reloading forums and Facebook groups and I see far too many asking if this or that concoction will be a good load.What happened to starting loads and gradually working up from there?Or at least reading the manual and following safe practices?It's no wonder this kind of thing happens.I think you have to have a lot of respect for what you're doing.This forum has the best info and most experience of any I've looked at,and most of the members are safe and sensible.I've seen some of the locals here in WV overload without any thought of what can happen.I was talking to one of them who was thinking about having one of his coworkers load some 6.5-300 Weatherby for him but he was apprehensive because the guy had already blew up 2 of his own rifles from going way over max with a faster powder than that round should be loaded with.And,yup,you guessed it,he's been loading for a little over a year.He loads them like that because he wants to get more velocity.There's nothing good going to come from running on the edge of disaster.
     
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  15. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

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    My personal opinion with the facts that are known I do not believe this was done intentionally or that the guy was HotRodding his loads. Sadly I believe this to be no more than a careless mistake. Misunderstanding the data or plainly not paying attention to the details, Complacency!

    Each time I respond to a topic from a new loader asking for advice one of my major points is to go slow, take your time and develop a repeatable routine. One that if something doesn't feel right or seems out of sequence then stop and investigate. Because if something feels wrong then it usually is.

    My routine has become so ingrained that I at times find it hard to move between different types of presses were the process is different.
     
  16. Skeptic13

    Skeptic13 Member

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    Glad that he is OK. Good lesson for all of us. Be careful and stay safe.
     
  17. peeplwtchr

    peeplwtchr Member

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    I tried a max load last weekend (6.0 gr of Unique in 9mm), and the first shot I got pressure signs. I verified this with 2 rangemasters who reload. I don't see any benefit of approaching max with pistol, in fact I get better accuracy with lower mid-range. If I need to load max for some reason, I need a different caliber.
     
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  18. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Just speculating here but, maybe the ka-boomer also has a .45ACP revolver and mixed up semi-auto loads with revolver-only loads?

    I'm really glad no one else was hurt and that I stick to middle-of-the-road published data. Don't scribble outside the lines, people.
     
  19. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Yeah, and the "more power!! grunt-grunt-grunt!" types just encourage those people who "ask Google" not to take good advice when it's given.
     
  20. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    One thing I have noticed on other groups and mainly FB is guys are asking does this powder work? whats your load? I need a powder I can use for this bullet because thats all I can find and they dont actually do research. It's great having Walkalong and others here to squash the nonsense that will get someone hurt.
     
  21. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    New Reloader needs guidance, and direction. The more reloaders the better for the community! Just think of all the new Presses and tech in the works to fill this BOMB market!

    Primer Factories!!!
     
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  22. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    they have a Super Max Load that’s even higher. Look up 9mm Major. usually for compensator guns. It uses the same case and components as normal 9mm
     
  23. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    When I was a kid, I worked up 357 mag loads that were not too far from 41 mag power levels, now I take a 44 mag and load them down to 41 mag levels.

    Part of being young and old I guess...

    Not sure if the internet would have got me into trouble or kept me out of it but I am real glad cell phones didn’t exist back then.
     
  24. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    I’m getting there too. I use to think, if it wasn’t over .45 caliber it wasn’t worth it... NOW, .22 is a pleasure and fun
     
  25. markr6754

    markr6754 Member

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    Seems no one answered your post, so I went and tried it out. Which leads me to think he made a hot load, but not a 1911 killer.

    8.6gr CFE-P in a new .45 Auto case fills less than 50%, but to quibble, let's say 1/2 full. Even with a 230gr FMJ I can't see a gun blowing apart at a 50% case fill. IMG_1080.jpg
     
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