Missouri Bullet Company 9mm OAL

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by kenk, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. kenk

    kenk Member

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    Afternoon, I contact Missouri Bullet Company regarding the below Bullets recommended OAL, and they suggested I check with the folks on The High Road. I will be using their 124gr 9mm RN - Grooveless / Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coated bullets, with BE-86 powder for this batch. Any thoughts on a good average OAL for this bullet, or any other helpful info would be much appreciated

    Thanks


    SmallBall-Grooveless
    #HT-356125GL
    .356 Diameter
    9mm Parabellum
    124 Grain 9MM RN - Grooveless
    Brinell 18
    Bullet OAL .591 +/-
    For General Shooting
    Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating from J&M Specialized Products P/L
    Color may vary
    Price per box of 500
     
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  2. Docendo Discimus

    Docendo Discimus Member

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    I don't load that exact bullet but a similar one I do load is the Lee. 356-2R 125gr. It plunks in all of my 9MMs at 1.115. You will have to make a dummy cartridge and plunk test your pistols but this is a good starting point.
     
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  3. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    You need to determine what your MAX OAL will be (plunk test) then see if it fits the magazine. If so do some function test to see if you need to adj any thing. Start low and do a ladder workup. Do your shooting accuracy using bags to support your hand's/wrist if you don;t have a Ransom rest. Pick the best group and see if you can duplicate it. If so load some up. If not drop to each side and see it's moved due to temp.

    I don't use that bullet or powder for my 9mm loads. So I can not give you any specifics. Besides, what shoot good in my gun may not in yours.
     
  4. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Keep seating your bullet deeper till this little bit of bullet is showing. Dont flare/bell the case on right. Diameter measured on the bullet .355" jacketed. Lead .356"

    Case head to bullet ogive. 20220804_142802.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  5. kenk

    kenk Member

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    Thanks, I’m pretty anal with my reloading practice’s, so they all set plunk tested
     
  6. kenk

    kenk Member

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    Absolutely, Thanks!
     
  7. mdi

    mdi Member

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    K.I.S.S. Find an OAL dimension for a similar weight and shape bullet in your manual. Make a couple dummies and plunk test...
     
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  8. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    Are you asking for a bullet OAL, or a cartridge COL? Did you purchase these yet or just trying to figure out if they’d work for you? I first find my max COL for the different 9mm barrels and then see what published COL data there’d be for a specific powder. Depending on the published COL I may need to adjust starting powder weight wrt seating depth which would be determined by the bullet OAL compared to the published data bullet OAL.

    If we’re loading for the same gun, my COL would be helpful.
     
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  9. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I had to load my 124 gr small balls to 1.090" as the longest I could go to fit my Keltec with has the shortest barrel lead. These bullets have a much shorter nose than an standard RN bullet has so the Ogive is closer to the end of the bullet.
    My recipe was 4.5 gr of Auto Comp with 124 gr small ball at 1.090". Turned out to be a really good accurate load that gave me no leading.
    So if your used to loading normal round nose bullets you can look for a much shorter OAL with these small balls.
     
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  10. Remington1911

    Remington1911 Member

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    Another vote here.

    This is basically what I do for ALL my guns, even examples where I have more then one of the same rifle in the same caliber, each gets its own specific (in the case of this topic) COAL.

    I don't know if this is the correct way to do things or not, but I have been doing it this way and I still have both eyes and all my fingers, so I am real lucky (NOT) or this is not a bad way to do it.

    I look at the lengths listed in the manuals as a good starting point, and work from there. You want them just a kiss off from the rifling, you don't want to jam them in there, you want a tick of space.

    In the cases of some bullets they my seat pretty darn long. I have one load where the groves are visible above the crimp. Where the rifle wants it to be.

    Key thing is you don't want to jam that bullet into the rifling, you want some kind of "jump".
     
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  11. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Your question pre-supposes that all 9mm barrels are cut the same, and thus once one person finds an OAL that works, that same OAL will work for you. This is absolutely NOT true. No 2 gun makers cut their chambers the exact same. All gun chambers meet a standard, but within the standard are openings for manufacturing variations.

    The truth is that there are 2 sets of Max & Min limits that you need to fully work within, before you can choose your OAL. This is poorly conveyed in the cartoon below...

    BhLepH4l.jpg

    ► The outer set is imposed by SAAMI.
    1. Too long and your round won't fit into the mag. 2. Too short and your round won't feed reliably.

    ► The inner set is comprised of the physical limits known only to YOU.
    3. Too long and the gun may fire OOB. 4. Too short and you'll be violating the shortest recipe listed in any of your load manuals.

    In reference to item #3: Since we are not in possession of your bullet and your barrel, no one here can derive that information except YOU. Each bullet interfaces with each maker's barrel in a unique way, resulting in a very individual, discrete, one-of-a-kind dimension.

    ► If you'll do the math and make the measurements, there is usually an OAL zone available to the reloader.
    • The idea that there is one, specific "best" OAL is pure BS.
    • The idea that load manuals recommend an OAL is pure BS. (They only report what they used.)

    Hope this helps.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  12. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    While determining Max OAL requires using the barrel to identify the length that will allow finished round to drop freely into chamber with a "plonk" and spin without hitting the rifling and Working OAL requires function testing by feeding dummy rounds (No powder, no primer) from the magazine, we can provide some examples of OALs. And if you are loading for multiple pistols, use the shortest OAL that will work in all of them - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/using-an-auto-pistol-barrel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/

    1.040" OAL works with my Lone Wolf barrel with very short leade. 1.050"-1.080" OAL should work with most factory barrels. Here are some max/working OALs - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/barrel-vs-bullet-max-working-oal-col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-12249361
    • 1.110" - Glock 22, KKM 40-9 conversion barrel
    • 1.080" - M&P Shield 9mm, factory barrel,
    • 1.050" - Glock 22, Tactical Kinetics 40-9 conversion barrel
    • 1.040" - Glock 23, Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrel

    When Brad designed and ordered the bullet mold for 124 gr RN (SmallBall!), it had shorter and more rounder tip that increased the bearing surface of the bullet that engaged the rifling (Compare the bullet base length to more typical pointed RN to the right that requires OAL of 1.125" to chamber in most barrels)

    [​IMG]

    MBC RN's shorter more rounder tip requires OAL around 1.050" - 1.080" for the base of bullet to clear the rifling of many barrels.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Remington1911

    Remington1911 Member

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    I can't speak to just 9mm, itis the subject here, but in other calibers you can have a cartridge that will fit into the mag, but in the no no zone as far as too long and jamming.
     
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  14. Hikingman

    Hikingman Member

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    Assumption: once fired or other brass case (brass only) OAL is same measured length as new brass case OAL. (Measured length of empty brass cases is important in my setup, and previously fired cases are not all equal.)

    Some of the specs. that are confusing to new reloaders, example: a box of Win. white box 9mm 115 gr. works good in (all) 3 different handguns at your range. So, what 9mm 115 gr. COAL would you want from your reloading table? Would it be the same COAL (on average) as the white box, or perhaps longer/shorter?

    Some may load their own 115 gr. to the same avg. COAL as the Win. white box 115 gr. 9mm (box of 50 qty.) and call it good. See 'same' assumption at beginning of my post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  15. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I had to go to 1.075" for that pattern of bullet - made by Bayou, but there are only so many mold designs available for the casting machines. I prefer the old style with lube groove and slight shoulder which I can seat to 1.14".
     
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  16. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Since resized case length of mixed range brass can vary and shorter cases (loaded to the same OAL as longer cases) can allow more bullet nose to stick above the case, when determining Max OAL using the barrel, I will measure some resized cases and use shorter case.

    Keep in mind if cases get too short (Straight wall semi-auto pistol cases will tend to grow shorter with subsequent firing and resizing), instead of headspacing off the case mouth, round will start to headspace off extractor (And primer ignition will depent on extractor holding the case). If your mixed range brass has been reloaded a lot of times, you can measure resized case length and start to discard really short ones, especially if you start having primer ignition issues even with proper primer seating depth of .004" below flush).
    While OP is using Hi-Tek coated lead bullet with shorter, more rounder nose profile (ogive), nose profile/ogive of the bullet and length of bullet base/bearing surface that engages the rifling can be different and requires different OAL to clear the start of rifling of different barrels that have varying leade length (Space bullet jumps from case neck to start of rifling).

    Even for same type bullet like following samples of 115 gr FMJ RN have varying nose profile/ogive and bullet/base lengths so if leade length is very short, will require different OAL to "plunk" or clear the start of rifling.

    From left: Zero, RMR, Winchester (with skirt base/sharp rim), Everglades (dished base) and Federal (hollow base) - Notice hollow base FMJ produces significantly longer bullet base (close to 124 gr FMJ flat base) to improve neck tension as case wall gets thicker further down the case):

    [​IMG]

    And this is why when conducting load development, we always use the barrel to determine the Max OAL (As leade/start of rifling can vary depending on the barrel) and then function check using the magazine to determine the Working OAL that will feed reliably.
     
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  17. Docendo Discimus

    Docendo Discimus Member

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    Let us know what length you went with when you get it figured out.
     
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