I recently just finished the books Silent Men and am currently reading HOGs in the Shadows. I know a MK11 is a 7.62mm DMR that replaced(?) the SAM-R or at least was in service at the same time as the SAM-R. I wonder if it or something similar will replace the M40A3 in the USMC? And what the differences are if any between the MK.11 and the M110 rifles?
MK11 Sniper Rifle
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P.B.Walsh
Member
I belive the Mk 11 is a M14 variant and the M-110 is an M16 variant. I don't think that they will replace the M40A3 (or at least I hope they don't), their more for a DM role.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Actually the MK.11 is a Stoner SR-25 rifle. I know that conclusively from both written and verbal sources but I was wondering if anyone knew if there were any differences between it and the Army M110.
I'm not certain they'll replace the M40A3 either but the book Trigger Men (not Silent Men as I accidentally entered it in the OP) states that most sniper teams are preferring highly accurate and higher capacity semi-automatic rifles especially in urban engagements.
I'm not certain they'll replace the M40A3 either but the book Trigger Men (not Silent Men as I accidentally entered it in the OP) states that most sniper teams are preferring highly accurate and higher capacity semi-automatic rifles especially in urban engagements.
jpwilly
Member
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mk11.htm
They are all pretty much the same. 7.62x51mm
The MK11:
The M110:
The SR25:
Actually, there are a number of small differences between several versions of the AR-10 (What later became known as the SR-25 and other versions.
This rolls across my desk at work, and trying to keep up with the subtle differences is maddening sometimes!
Ordering and supplying the correct replacment parts to the correct units can be maddening!
Some to the differences are things like type of magazine, design of firing pin, forged vs. extruded upper, trigger group (Stoner design vs. 'Match' type), ect.
Right now, the Army & Air Force are putting the M-110 and SR-25 into full scale field 'Trials'.
The Marines and Navy are dealing with several choices, Including some 'Old School' pressure to use updated and revised versions of the M-14 along with the AR-10 style rifles.
This rolls across my desk at work, and trying to keep up with the subtle differences is maddening sometimes!
Ordering and supplying the correct replacment parts to the correct units can be maddening!
Some to the differences are things like type of magazine, design of firing pin, forged vs. extruded upper, trigger group (Stoner design vs. 'Match' type), ect.
Right now, the Army & Air Force are putting the M-110 and SR-25 into full scale field 'Trials'.
The Marines and Navy are dealing with several choices, Including some 'Old School' pressure to use updated and revised versions of the M-14 along with the AR-10 style rifles.
SpeedAKL
Member
The Mk.11 is a variant of the Knights Armament SR-25, a 7.62/.308 AR-type rifle. The original Mk.11 Mod 0 was designed for Naval Special Warfare (aka the SEALs), and the Mk.11 is now used by the USMC as well. Civilians can order the entire weapons system or the system minus the suppressor.
The Army's M110 is basically identical save for a different rail system on the forearm and a slightly different suppressor design.
The USMC's SAM/R is an accurized AR-type rifle in 5.56mm NATO built by the armorers at Quantico. It uses a 20-in stainless Kreiger match barrel, KAC rails, and a Leupold Mk.4 scope. Some other rifles in the Corps are also called SAM/Rs but are simply M16s with ACOGs and a KAC match trigger.
The Army's SDM-R is pretty similar, using a 1:8 twist Douglas stainless 20-in barrel, KAC match trigger, Daniel Defense rails, and typically an ACOG.
The Mk.12 SPR is used by the SEALs and increasingly by Army SF units. It is a 5.56mm AR-type rifle using an 18-inch 1:7 match barrel fitted with an OPS muzzle brake. It typically is made of Colt, Armalite, or Diemaco receivers and fitted with either a PRI, KAC, or ARMS forearm and an adjustable telestock. Optics used include the Leupold Mk.4 in the Army and the Nightforce NXS in the Navy.
Kinda confusing, huh?
And then there are the M14-based marksman rifles:
The USMC uses the M14 DMR, basically an M14 with a match-grade 22-inch Krieger or Rock Creek barrel and a McMillan M2A fiberglass stock.
The Green Machine is upgrading the M14 DMR to the M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle, essentially an improved M14 DMR with the EBR stock from....
...the Mk.14 EBR, what you were probably confusing with the Mk.11. It is an M14 in a modular Enhanced Battle Rifle stock produced by Sage International. Parts from Springfield and Smith Enterprises are used in the rifle. Apparently Mk.14s are running around in both 22-in and 18-in CQB versions.
Of course, you also have the M14-based M21 and its newer sibling the M25, long popular sniper/marksman rifles with USSOCOM units, either found in traditional fiberglass McMillan M1A stocks or in stocks like the EBR or the Troy MCS.
The Army's M110 is basically identical save for a different rail system on the forearm and a slightly different suppressor design.
The USMC's SAM/R is an accurized AR-type rifle in 5.56mm NATO built by the armorers at Quantico. It uses a 20-in stainless Kreiger match barrel, KAC rails, and a Leupold Mk.4 scope. Some other rifles in the Corps are also called SAM/Rs but are simply M16s with ACOGs and a KAC match trigger.
The Army's SDM-R is pretty similar, using a 1:8 twist Douglas stainless 20-in barrel, KAC match trigger, Daniel Defense rails, and typically an ACOG.
The Mk.12 SPR is used by the SEALs and increasingly by Army SF units. It is a 5.56mm AR-type rifle using an 18-inch 1:7 match barrel fitted with an OPS muzzle brake. It typically is made of Colt, Armalite, or Diemaco receivers and fitted with either a PRI, KAC, or ARMS forearm and an adjustable telestock. Optics used include the Leupold Mk.4 in the Army and the Nightforce NXS in the Navy.
Kinda confusing, huh?
And then there are the M14-based marksman rifles:
The USMC uses the M14 DMR, basically an M14 with a match-grade 22-inch Krieger or Rock Creek barrel and a McMillan M2A fiberglass stock.
The Green Machine is upgrading the M14 DMR to the M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle, essentially an improved M14 DMR with the EBR stock from....
...the Mk.14 EBR, what you were probably confusing with the Mk.11. It is an M14 in a modular Enhanced Battle Rifle stock produced by Sage International. Parts from Springfield and Smith Enterprises are used in the rifle. Apparently Mk.14s are running around in both 22-in and 18-in CQB versions.
Of course, you also have the M14-based M21 and its newer sibling the M25, long popular sniper/marksman rifles with USSOCOM units, either found in traditional fiberglass McMillan M1A stocks or in stocks like the EBR or the Troy MCS.
I know the SAM-R is basically an accurized M16A3/A4 sporting a variety of telescopic sights and utilized by the USMC in a DMR role and as a spotter's weapon for sniper teams.
I've heard that the USMC ordered several MK.11 rifles shortly after SOCOM ordered them to complement (or replace? I've heard both) the SAM-R and M-14 sniper rifles.
Before posting this thread I knew that the USMC had another semiautomatic sniper/DM rifle other than the M-14 in 7.52. I knew it was an SR-25 variant and I wasn't quite sure if the MK11 is in as widespread use in conventional USMC sniper (conventional meaning non MSOB/Force or Battalion Recon guys). Can anyone answer that?
I've heard that the USMC ordered several MK.11 rifles shortly after SOCOM ordered them to complement (or replace? I've heard both) the SAM-R and M-14 sniper rifles.
Before posting this thread I knew that the USMC had another semiautomatic sniper/DM rifle other than the M-14 in 7.52. I knew it was an SR-25 variant and I wasn't quite sure if the MK11 is in as widespread use in conventional USMC sniper (conventional meaning non MSOB/Force or Battalion Recon guys). Can anyone answer that?
I know the SAM-R is basically an accurized M16A3/A4 sporting a variety of telescopic sights and utilized by the USMC in a DMR role and as a spotter's weapon for sniper teams.
I've heard that the USMC ordered several MK.11 rifles shortly after SOCOM ordered them to complement (or replace? I've heard both) the SAM-R and M-14 sniper rifles.
Before posting this thread I knew that the USMC had another semiautomatic sniper/DM rifle other than the M-14 in 7.52. I knew it was an SR-25 variant and I wasn't quite sure if the MK11 is in as widespread use in conventional USMC sniper (conventional meaning non MSOB/Force or Battalion Recon guys). Can anyone answer that?
I've heard that the USMC ordered several MK.11 rifles shortly after SOCOM ordered them to complement (or replace? I've heard both) the SAM-R and M-14 sniper rifles.
Before posting this thread I knew that the USMC had another semiautomatic sniper/DM rifle other than the M-14 in 7.52. I knew it was an SR-25 variant and I wasn't quite sure if the MK11 is in as widespread use in conventional USMC sniper (conventional meaning non MSOB/Force or Battalion Recon guys). Can anyone answer that?
the SAM as stated above is the 5.56 DM rifle for spotters/Designated Marksmen
the MK-11 was a US Navy SASS entry that has sean some use with Seals
the M110 is a slightly different variation of the MK11 for the armies new SASS program
the previous designation for the 7.62 model semi-auto was the M21 which was a M14 variant
i personaly dont see the SASS replacing the M40 or the M24 as the SASS is lacking in distance (according to those that have used it in interviews from various forms of media) the advantage of the SASS is in special operation environments such as urban fighting where a shot may be needed at 500 with rapid follow up shots also for use on transport (i.e. trucks choppers)
also in close quarters if supplied with a mini red dot and cant mount you can use the same rifle for CQB rolls if needed
the MK-11 was a US Navy SASS entry that has sean some use with Seals
the M110 is a slightly different variation of the MK11 for the armies new SASS program
the previous designation for the 7.62 model semi-auto was the M21 which was a M14 variant
i personaly dont see the SASS replacing the M40 or the M24 as the SASS is lacking in distance (according to those that have used it in interviews from various forms of media) the advantage of the SASS is in special operation environments such as urban fighting where a shot may be needed at 500 with rapid follow up shots also for use on transport (i.e. trucks choppers)
also in close quarters if supplied with a mini red dot and cant mount you can use the same rifle for CQB rolls if needed
Silverado6x6
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Navy Seals used this on the recent Somali pirates situation.
P.B.Walsh
Member
Cool, but SEALs could use .22lr and STILL be the shiz!!!!!
Lord knows I agree with you. But I've heard that (source: an issue of Soldier of Fortune from 2002) the Spetsnaz use silenced 22lr rifles for close range (read: Police hostage rescue).
Back on topic does anyone know if the MK.11 ever became widely issued as a USMC DMR or did the M14s stay at that role.
lonerider, yes. visit this board http://longrangeinternational.com/forum/index.php?sid=2f23caf426ae58b0313abc56d6cda8e5 which is run by a bunch of marine scout/snipers. they have written quite a bit about using it in combat in iraq. they seem quite fond of it
The book Trigger Men by Hans Halberstadt included a few USMC snipers that gave ringing endorsements to the MK.11 in Iraq's urban environment. They liked the firepower that the Mk.11 provides as well as it's accuracy and the fact that it resembles an ordinary M-16 to the casual observer so snipers don't stand out as much.
I now know, from an old high school buddy who worked as an armorer before getting out of the USMC (approx. 2006), that the SAM-R rifles were only for East Coast Marines and Pendelton/Kaneohe based Marine Corps Designated Marksmen had to make due with M16A4s. Is there any truth to this?
I now know, from an old high school buddy who worked as an armorer before getting out of the USMC (approx. 2006), that the SAM-R rifles were only for East Coast Marines and Pendelton/Kaneohe based Marine Corps Designated Marksmen had to make due with M16A4s. Is there any truth to this?
From another forum:
"Actually the M110 thus far has proved dismal at best.
All M110s that have been fielded to my sniper teams have failed and gone down.
All have to go back to KAC because of these dramatic failures.
We had to do a 1 for 1 replacement and lost all of our M24's which was the saddest day in our teams history.
Now we can't get them back and we have no sniper rifles.
The M110 is nice in theory but makes no sense when put into operation.
The only nice part about it is that you get a suppressor to come with it.
It's requires a high level of maintenance, encourages snipers to take multiple shots,
jams after twenty rounds with the suppressor and is super expensive to fix."
Do you have anything that will substantiate this claim?? Proof??
"Actually the M110 thus far has proved dismal at best.
All M110s that have been fielded to my sniper teams have failed and gone down.
All have to go back to KAC because of these dramatic failures.
We had to do a 1 for 1 replacement and lost all of our M24's which was the saddest day in our teams history.
Now we can't get them back and we have no sniper rifles.
The M110 is nice in theory but makes no sense when put into operation.
The only nice part about it is that you get a suppressor to come with it.
It's requires a high level of maintenance, encourages snipers to take multiple shots,
jams after twenty rounds with the suppressor and is super expensive to fix."
Do you have anything that will substantiate this claim?? Proof??
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
The M110 is definitely having some teething problems, mainly due to issues with the trigger.
The main difference betwwen the MK11 Mod2 and the M110 is a slightly different buttstock. AFAIK, the MK11 Mod0 rifles are currently being rebuilt as Mod2s as they come in for overhaul.
The main difference betwwen the MK11 Mod2 and the M110 is a slightly different buttstock. AFAIK, the MK11 Mod0 rifles are currently being rebuilt as Mod2s as they come in for overhaul.
Jeremy2171
Member
M40A3 is soon to be upgraded to M40A5 specs (threaded for suppressor)
The SAM-R is now obsolete and should be gone from most USMC Armories.
Mk-11 replaced the SAM-R in small numbers...no longer procured and will use until worn out
Mk-12 is now "it" to be the standard DMR for Infantry Bns
M14 DMR in use with MP/EOD units not Infantry units.
EMR is in the works (Enhanced Marksman Rifle)
The SAM-R is now obsolete and should be gone from most USMC Armories.
Mk-11 replaced the SAM-R in small numbers...no longer procured and will use until worn out
Mk-12 is now "it" to be the standard DMR for Infantry Bns
M14 DMR in use with MP/EOD units not Infantry units.
EMR is in the works (Enhanced Marksman Rifle)
smith enterprise has a forum?No, I found that over on Snipers Hide.
Modernized and enhanced M14 variants that are currently in service:
TACOM M14 EBR RI
US Marine M39EMR
M21A5/Crazy Horse (this rifle out shot the SR25/M110)
MK14 Mod 0 SEI (18")
CRANE MK14 Mod 0 & Mod 1 (18")
Maverick223
Member
Now why would you suspect that of an upstanding member such as H2Oman?
It was the Springfield forum. So the EMR will replace or supplant the MK-12s Marines now use?
I gather, then, that the SAM-R was only a stopgap to fill the need for DMR until other systems were fielded?
I'd figure the MK-11 would've been the way to go for DMRs, after all it's got an inherently longer range and more stopping power with the 7.62x51mm round and it's got commonality of ammunition with the M40A3 for SSP on its side too. Any idea why they discontinued purchase?
Any particular reason why the M14 DMR is only fielded to EOD and MP as opposed to infantry? I'd guess it's because most infantry units have loads of 5.56 in stock, so a 5.56 DMR might be more advantageous for their marksmen to have. (Maybe that might be the answer to my MK.11 question).
stoney1666
Member
What kind of rifle did Marcus have in "Lone Survivor"?
gvnwst
Member
This makes sense of what a Sabre Defense employee told me, they are workin on their own version of the M110, to contract to the army...becasuse the M110 was failing in combat.
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