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MN Carry Law Ruled Unconstitutional

Discussion in 'Legal' started by ChiefPilot, Jul 13, 2004.

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  1. ChiefPilot

    ChiefPilot Member

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  2. halvey

    halvey Member

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    Good news really.

    Now we can get drunk, carry in schools and ignore the "no guns" signs.
     
  3. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Member

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    Here's the text of the article.

    Judge declares state's gun law unconstitutional
    Tony Kennedy, Star Tribune
    July 14, 2004 GUN0714



    Minnesota's conceal and carry gun law was declared unconstitutional today by a Ramsey County District judge.

    Ruling in a lawsuit brought by several churches, Judge John Finley wrote in his decision that it was unconstitutional for the 2002 Legislature to bundle the conceal and carry gun language with a "totally unrelated bill relating to the Department of Natural Resources."

    He said the state Constitution prohibits laws from embracing more than one subject.

    Minneapolis attorney David Lillehaug, who represented Adath Jeshurun Congregation in challenging the gun law, said Finley ruled that passage of Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act of 2002, known as Senate File 842, was "contrary to Minnesota's tradition of open government."

    Finley issued his order about 11 a.m. and was unavailable for comment on the immediate effects of the ruling. Under the law, citizens who obtain a permit are allowed to carry a concealed gun.

    Minnesota Attorney General Michael Hatch said he will appeal Finley's ruling. Hatch said he was still researching the opinion, but believes that conceal and carry permits obtained since the law was passed are still valid.

    He said the whole issue of laws embracing more than one subject has been in debate for the past 10 years.

    Hatch also said he is not aware of any ill effects from the gun law.
     
  4. TXatty

    TXatty Member

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    I don't live in Minnesota (used to), but I do travel there often. I've been following this case with some interest. In fact, I have an application for a Minnesota Permit to Carry on my desk at this moment.

    This decision could have some unintended consequences for the liberals (and not bad ones, as far as I'm concerned). I'm guessing that many of the state's sacred welfare laws were "bundled" with other laws to promote their passage, bringing the constitutionality of those laws into question as well. I'd bet money someone is researching that issue right now.
     
  5. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Member

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    Don't know how the MN State Police are, but wouldn't it be possible to pass an interim ordinance upholding the issuance of CCWs?
     
  6. VaniB.

    VaniB. member

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    So ultimately they're going to pull everbody's license? I'd like to see them attempt that one! Trust me....some way some how...this judges ruling is going to be out maneuvered.
     
  7. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    Exactly what I was thinking. I reckon it's time for MN residents to find if any laws they don't like were attached to unrelated stuff ;)
     
  8. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    This bites most mightily.

    I imagine that the judge will stay his summary judgement pending an appeal.

    How the appeal goes is anyone's guess.

    This is bad.
     
  9. halvey

    halvey Member

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    I knew this would happen. CCRN sent out an email a few months back saying it's time for people to quit using Lilehaug's law firm.

    Huh?

    Sounded kind of defeatist to me.
     
  10. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    I am not lawyer. But I checked with a buddy of mine who has CCW here in MN like me and was a paralegal.

    He said this didn't make any real sense since a Ramsey County Judge didn't have the authority to strike down state law.
     
  11. Tall Man

    Tall Man Member

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    Who or what is this?


    Edit : I just Googled these folks. They don't appear to act very conservative to me. Given their historical experience, what is it with some Jews' inexplicable aversion to the personal firearm?

    TM
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2004
  12. goalie

    goalie Member

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    I am not so sure. This may very well be a great thing overall, as our permits are still valid, but it would appear that a very large number of Minnesota laws were just declared unconstitutional, not just the MPPA.

    I am not really sure that the judge in question had jurisdiction to even make such a ruling.
     
  13. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    From joelr's blog:
    It should be noted that although Joel doesn't name names, he has from time to time been seen in the company of MNCCRN president and Hamline University law professor Joseph Olson, who is not only the legal mind behind Joel's excellent textbook, but literally wrote the Minnesota carry law.
     
  14. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    IIRC Joseph Olson is also a Gunsite grad.
     
  15. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    AP story, much better than the Star Trib's in most respects...
    *** Well, less than 1% of businesses in the state did, anyway.
     
  16. goalie

    goalie Member

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    One from the St Paul Paper


    After reading some of the ruling, I am quite optimistic. The premise that we were not informed of this going on because it snuck through is ridiculous. There were Democrats wearing flack-jackets (against senate rules) on the floor during the debate. It was all over the news for weeks before it was passed.
     
  17. DMF

    DMF Member

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    Assuming the media story is correct, the key here is the legislature screwed up by violating the State Constitution when drafting the legislation. The judge ruled on the law as determined by the Minnesota Constitution. He did what he was required as a matter of law.

    Anyone got a link to the text of the actual decision by the judge?
     
  18. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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  19. goalie

    goalie Member

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    DMF,

    If this ruling is upheld (questionable, because the original bill did mention a need for hunters from out of state needing permits, and also addressed fishing permits, snowmobile permits and licenses, and ATV permits and licenses) we pretty much get to throw out a whole lot of laws, including, potentially, many social programs the democratic party here loves.

    I wonder if they are going to try and invalidate permits. If they do so, the refunding of funds is really going to hurt the budgets of the metro area sheriffs.
     
  20. DMF

    DMF Member

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    Well I read it and it's clear the judge acted correctly based on the MN State Constitution.
     
  21. DMF

    DMF Member

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    These issues are directly related to the title of the legislation as the MN Constitution requires. The CCW permits do not. The legislature screwed up on this one.
     
  22. goalie

    goalie Member

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    Considering that the old permits required a DNR class, and that permit system was being changed/reformed, this legislation was more closely linked to the original bill than many wellfare, spending, and even criminal statute legislation is to the bills they are attached to. If upheld as unconstitutional, it will actually be a big, nay, huge blow to the democratic party in the end, as a whole lot of their pet legislation here in Minnesota will now be null and void. :D
     
  23. jfh

    jfh Member

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    egad, what a day to be glued to the phone....

    My only observations so far are the following:

    1. Since the other bills were not being challenged in court, I question whether or not those will be found to be "unconstitutionally" passed...

    But I think we could find one or ten of those to challenge now, couldn't we? It might be an important move to make....

    2. And, it behooves us all now, regardless of our legislative district, to act on a statewide level to defeat as many of the DFL / flakjacket jackasses as we can this fall. Which ones are the most vulnerable?

    God help me, if this gets the blissninnies running around screaming again, I think I'm gonna have to shoot more without muffs.
     
  24. goalie

    goalie Member

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    Oh, bills will be challanged.
     
  25. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    What's up with Hatch's press conference? He was supposed to speak a couple of hours ago but I haven't heard a word.

    I was shooting at Bill's just before Channel 5 reported live from the range. I gave a Star Tribune reporter an earful. I hope he focuses on the important stuff I said instead of dwelling on the fact that I called the Unitarians a bunch of damned hippies.
     
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