Quantcast

Model 19 S&W vs 586

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Huntolive, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Virginia
    I'm looking at too lightly used revolvers with 6-inch barrels that I'd mostly use for hunting whitetail and target shooting.
    I hear great things about the model 586 but not much about the model 19.
    Both are $650.
    The model 19 has a nickel finish has been fired very little and looks good.
    586 - 1 has a couple little things but overall looks okay I have not had a chance to pull the trigger on either.

    What can y'all tell me about the advantages of either one as far as trigger accuracy durability etc and overall value?
     
  2. The Evangelist Cowboy

    The Evangelist Cowboy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,435
    Location:
    Is anybody going to San Antone?
    Get the 586 for what you describe. The model 19 is a .38 SPL gun with .357 capability they do not stand well to heavy loads for long. The biggest advantage to the K frame is weight and size savings. I would just get the 586. If your talking about newer models of the 19 I have no experience with them.
     
    BSA1, Anchorite, 2ndtimer and 6 others like this.
  3. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,056
    Location:
    NW Florida
  4. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    10,852
    Location:
    USA.
    For a few dollars more buy a new L frame . Screenshot_20190907-091524.jpg Screenshot_20190907-092911.jpg
     
  5. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    10,852
    Location:
    USA.
    Current model is (i think) a 586-8 . It features a redesigned and improved yoke. Newer and better?
     
  6. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    19,629
    Huntolive

    Think of the L frame as being slightly larger, stronger, and more durable over the long run, with a steady diet of .357 loads, over a K frame like the Model 19. For hunting and target shooting I would go with the Model 586.
     
    Dave T and NIGHTLORD40K like this.
  7. ontarget

    ontarget Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,857
    Location:
    Michigan (Gods country)
    For your intended use I would go with the 586. They are both fine revolvers but the 586 is a bit more robust and will be better for a steady diet of 357s which I assume you would be practicing with for your hunts.
     
    Charlie Horse and Dave T like this.
  8. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    3,765
    Location:
    Land of the Pilgrims
    Howdy

    Here is the difference. About 1905 or so S&W put a clearance cut on the bottom of the forcing cone of their K frame 38 Special revolvers. The clearance cut was there to provide clearance for the gas ring on the cylinder. As you can see, the clearance cut thins the metal in that area of the forcing cone. This worked fine for many years with the 38 Special cartridge, but when they began chambering their K frame revolvers for 357 Magnum the thin section could cause problems. Please note: This is not a guarantee there will be problems. But sometimes with high velocity, light weight bullet 357 Magnum loads the forcing cone would split at the thin spot. This is a photo of the clearance cut on a Model 13-2.

    Clearance%20Cut%20Model%2013-2%20SN6D03706%201979_zpswqfgrnoe.jpg





    By enlarging the cylinder slightly, the L frame revolvers put a little bit more distance between the gas ring and the bottom of the forcing cone. This is a view of the forcing cone of an L frame 686. Notice the metal is full thickness all the way around.

    Model%20686%20Forcing%20Cone_zpstnkmzlol.jpg




    For the record, I've had my K frame Model 19-3 for over 40 years and it is still going strong.

    model19-301_zps8ac05206.jpg
     
    I6turbo, HighRoadRover, km101 and 3 others like this.
  9. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,719
    Location:
    Alabama
    All things being equal, I prefer the hammer mounted firing pin to the current frame mounted. A direct strike ignition system imparts more Kinetic energy directly to the primer, as the hammer fall energy is not dissipated through transfer bars and transfer mechanisms. In marginal conditions a direct strike mechanism will ignite a primer when a frame mounted mechanism won't.

    See the difference:

    yU3ZY4H.jpg

    My 586, the previous owner shot over 60,000 rounds of 148 LWC and 2.7 grains Bullseye in PPC competition. Besides finish wear, the main spring needed replacing.

    wt7M26B.jpg

    Having both K frame and L frame pistols

    WMwE5NW.jpg

    The K frame is more compact and easy to carry. The greatest problem the K frames had was with 125 grain full bore 357 Magnum loads. The heat and probably pressure, were such that forcing cone cracks became a problem. I know one shooter who was shooting major loads in his K frame and his forcing cone cracked. If you fire 38 Special level loads the pistol will last, effectively, forever. The same shooter, a 10 times PPC Champ, has fired over 600,000 rounds of 148 LWC 2..7 grains Bullseye in another K frame S&W. He has had to replace a broken firing pin, an extractor star and cylinder hand. The cylinder and frame are still fine. Barrel still groups 2 inches at 50 yards. I have fired cases of 38 Special +P through this pistol, outside of massive lead rings in the cylinders, everything is still perfect. I have fired ammunition cans of 158 grain L or JHP with 13.5 grains 2400 and had no problems what so ever.

    If on your selection criteria, compactness rates higher than high rate of fire durability, than the M19 is the better choice. But, I will say, given the same price, and if compactness is not a particularly high issue, I would go for the M586.
     
    I6turbo and HighRoadRover like this.
  10. The Evangelist Cowboy

    The Evangelist Cowboy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,435
    Location:
    Is anybody going to San Antone?
    Can't speak to the regular production but I had a 586 L Comp with a three inch barrel there was nothing wrong with it and it was a dandy.
     
  11. whatnickname

    whatnickname Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    As some have pointed out the primary advantage, or disadvantage depending on your point of view, is the weight difference. At the end of a long day you can get to feeling a bit more weighted down with the L frame in a holster. There is quite a bit of chatter on this and other forums about Smith & Wesson revolvers not standing up to prolonged use of magnum loads. Don’t you believe it! Smith & Wesson has been making revolvers longer than anyone on this site has been alive. They know what they’re doing and their products are durable
     
    kidneyboy, Slamfire and Riomouse911 like this.
  12. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,207
    Location:
    Ca.
    I’ll second the 6” 586 for hunting, it is an extremely capable revolver for your purposes.

    Stay safe.
     
  13. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    10,852
    Location:
    USA.
    Called a hammer nose. I replaced mine on the M28 after a few pierced primers gas cut it. Easy to do.
     
  14. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Virginia
    Thanks guys!
     
  15. Hanshi

    Hanshi Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    924
    Location:
    Maine
    I'm a major fan of the S&W M19. I've even killed deer with mine. But the 19 and the 686/585 were not designed to do the same job. The M19 is as fine a carry gun as has ever been produced. I've carried one as a LEO and seldom fire any full power loads through it. Can it stand up to a lot of mag shooting? Yes it can. One particular load - the 125 grain high velocity magnum - was the culprit. The 5/686 revolvers are stronger and heavier, lending themselves to serious hunting; also target and LEO use.
     
    Apuesto and Slamfire like this.
  16. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Virginia
    Interesting
    So how would you compare the model 19 to an older model 65 - 2 for example? I have one of those and it may have the best trigger of any pistol I own. Of course it has fixed rear sights. Does the model 19 have adjustable rear sights?
     
  17. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    8,801
    Location:
    East TN
    I cracked the forcing cone on my Model 19 with a steady diet of full power 158 grain JHP ammunition. Don't think just the hot 125 grainers are the culprit. Fortunately, S&W replaced the barrel on their dime circa 1983. Don't expect that service today.

    The Model 65 is the fixed sight, stainless, k-frame version of the Model 19.

    Yes, the Model 19 has adjustable sights.

    The stainless equivalent of the Model 19 is the Model 66.

    With the latest version of the Model 66, S&W redesigned the frame and barrel to eliminate the weak spot of the forcing cone on all previous versions of the Model 19 and Model 66.

    The grip frame on the L-frames is the same as the grip frames on the K-frames so they should feel the same in your hands except for the greater weight of the L-frame revolvers.
     
  18. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Virginia
    Thanks Guys, especially cfullgraf
    So my model 65 is a k frame, my 686 is L frame, and my 629's are N frame?
    Are there any n frame 357?

    Are there any L frame 44 Mag s worth having?
     
  19. whatnickname

    whatnickname Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Yes there are N frame 357s. Model 27, 28 and 520. Although all command a premium as they have been out of production for quite some time. They only made 3000 of the 520s. Smith does make a current production 44 magnum that is built on the L frame...the model 69 Combat Magnum. My preference is for the older “pre-lock” Smith’s. Just pick up an M&P 38 Special revolver that was made in the late 40s or early 50s and inspect it. Cock it a few times and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Smith & Wesson has come a long way over the last 100 years. Not all of it good IMO.
     
    I6turbo likes this.
  20. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7,056
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  21. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Virginia
    I have to agree on the older model Smiths having much bbetter triggers in general, but I agree with others that it can be a very case-by-case gun by gun situation.
    Ione several relatively new model performance center Smith & Wesson's which have inferior triggers 2 mi model 65 - 2.
    A non Performance Center 629 classic I foolishly sold to a friend had a much better trigger then my performance center 357 R8 which has a disappointing trigger at best considering its PC and also had at least as good of a trigger as my PC 629 s
     
  22. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    854
    Location:
    Iowa
    S&W makes a handful of N frame .357’s. The 27 is still being made and there are a couple of 8 shot model 627’s.

    To throw another fly into the ointment, Colt just reintroduced their Colt King Cobra with a 4.25” barrel and adjustable sights.
     
  23. whatnickname

    whatnickname Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    4.25” and 4.2” barrels...nothing more than U.S. companies catering to the Canadian gun control crap. I would tell the Canadians to pound sand until they fixed their liberal BS gun laws. Meanwhile back in the U.S. most of the holster manufacturers aren’t keeping pace with the 4+ inch. I just love the last fraction of an inch of my revolver barrel sticking out the bottom of my holster.
     
  24. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,167
    It depends on how many 357s you plan to shoot. As others have said, the Model 19 is closer to a 38 Spl that can shoot 357s occasionally. A 586 will eat 357s for breakfast.

    Also, if you are planning on shooting any thermonuclear Buffalo Bore type hunting loads, I would probably go with the 586. One cylinder of hot loads isn't going to kill the 19, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable hammering a 586 with those things.

    As far as the L frame 44 Mag, never shot it, but it seems like an interesting idea. 44 Mags get my attention out of an N frame, so I wonder what the smaller gun would be like as far as recoil.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  25. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Virginia
    As far as the Colt King Cobra I'd rather have a 6-inch anyway or 5-inch would be freaking perfect
     
    Charlie Horse likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice