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Molon Labe? Gimme a break.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Richard.Howe, Aug 16, 2004.

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  1. Richard.Howe

    Richard.Howe Member

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    First, let me don my flame suit...there...should be prepared for what may follow.

    Many of us have rallied around the cry "Molon Labe" which means, literally, "come and get them." I must admit that upon hearing this RKBA mantra for the first time, I was thrilled with the symbolism and history of the phrase that has come to embody a high degree of dedication to the 2nd Amendment for many gun owners. Come and Get Them.

    The more I thought about it, however, the more uneasy I became about its ultimate meaning. As a sincere proponent of Molon Labe, you are saying that if the government passed laws against gun ownership, you would actively resist. Come and Get Them.

    Meaning that -- if laws were passed next week -- you would feel compelled by principle to take a shot at an LEO coming to your house to enforce the law. Or that you would participate in lethal resistance against our armed forces. Come and Get Them.

    If you allow Molon Labe to reach its logical conclusion, these scenarios are very real. This phrase should belong in the nauseating company of "Vote From the Rooftops."

    Before pointing to Nazis or Fascists to tell me why I'm crazy for not buying into this philosophy, please recall that both of these dictatorships leveraged horrible atrocities on their people. These violations are exactly the sort of thing that should meet with armed resistance, and I and my 300 Win Mag would be first in line.

    The true test-parallel would be modern Australia or Great Britain. Ought these citizens "rise up" and violently rebel against gun prohibitions? Or, if we could go back in time to the period immediately following passage of ownership restrictions, would you encourage gun-owning civilians to tell their local PD to "Molon Labe?"

    I'm not a latin expert, but I would propose replacement of Molon Labe with a latin translation of "Go and Find Them." Because if our government ever passes laws against gun ownership, I might promptly lose -- or have stolen -- all of my guns; because I know that it is only the beginning of a far darker time to come.

    What I will NOT do is put a bullet in Barney Fife on my front porch because the Senate happens to be particularly stupid.

    Take care and be consistent,
    Rich
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2004
  2. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    The Founding Fathers should be very proud of their progeny.

    "Go Hide! Go Hide! The British are coming..." :barf:
     
  3. 444

    444 Member

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    "please recall that both of these dictatorships leveraged horrible atrocities on their people. "

    Please note that these horrible atrocities occured because the victims lacked the tools to defend themselves. The atrocities didn't occur when gun ownership was legal and you could meet them head on with your .300 Win Mag. Once the .300 Win Mag is gone, it is too late.
    One phrase I have heard a few times that deseves some serious thought: The second amendment isn't about hunting. Our forefathers didn't write the bill of rights so that duck hunters could continue to enjoy their sport. The second amendment was written because our forefathers knew what happened when someone was unable to defend themselves against a tyranical government.
    Another similar saying that applies to your post: If it is time to start burying your guns, it is time to start digging them up.
    Don't trust a government that doesn't trust it's citizens.

    I keep reading about saying your guns were stolen or whatever when they come to your door.
    Please
    Do you honestly think that is going to work ?
    They will say, OK, let's see the receipts or some documentation. If you had a few thousand dollars worth of guns stolen, let's see the police report. Let's check with your insurance company.
    If you don't produce the guns or some kind of documentation, they have all the leverage in the world to keep you in line.
     
  4. Ewok

    Ewok Member

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    I think you mean Australia. According to the NRA:
     
  5. BSlacker

    BSlacker Member

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    Your view is narrow. When you say, Oh they fell over board when I was fishing the govgoons are just going to go away, you think. So you bury the guns, now you have no guns which was the goal of the govgoons. If you get the guns out later and get caught the govgoons will ruin your and everybodies lives that you hold dear. This is the evil that is gov. Belive me anybody who wants to ruin your life over gun ownership is NOT Barney!
    So your way you lose the guns or run the risk of a life altering event such as 15-20 as a new wife for Bubba. You can't shoot your guns easily or display them.
    If the founding fathers had your ideas nobody would have gone to the road to beat back the British and you would not have the guns you have now. Buck up man.

    I will go too the road I don't quess we will be seeing you there. :D
     
  6. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    I find it interesting that the true meaning of the phrase took so long to dawn on you.

    I can understand your not wanting to be involved in what would be a bloody, thankless endeavor that had little chance of success.

    ...but somebody has to do it. Don't worry, there are plenty that will stand in your place.
     
  7. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    -Solzhenitsyn
     
  8. Richard.Howe

    Richard.Howe Member

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    And I will benefit from their principles, and be remorsefully thankful.

    There are many that would kill to protect their possessions, but I am not one. Yet I benefit daily from those who do.

    My guns are loaded and at the ready for those who would threaten not things but lives. Which is why I will never give them up.

    But personal ownership of my Ruger 10/22 will not be justification to put a 230gr. JHP into center-of-mass of my local sheriff.

    And other than theory-talk, you wouldn't do it either.
     
  9. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    I took an oath upon entering the service that I would to fight to preserve the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

    I've fought the former. You'd damn well better believe I'd fight the latter.

    Some of us who have actually seen what happens to a disarmed populace actually believe in this stuff.

    Don't project your own shortcomings onto others.
     
  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    The whole point of the molon labe mindset is to prevent us from ever getting in the position of Australia or the UK. I believe the citizens of those nations would be well within their rights to revolt, esp. considering both nations are still under the rule of a monarch with no lawful claim to power and neither nation places any real limits on the power of central authority. The UK Parliament retains the power to issue a bill calling for the execution of a citizen, for example. There is no bill of rights, and the court system cow tows to the will of Parliament in all circumstances. It is a true tyranny of the majority.

    The slogan isn't about killing LEO's, it's about drawing the line beyond which you will not tolerate federal action. If it ever comes to that point, I have no doubt that my own state will bar any state or local LEO's from assisting in enforcement of the federal ban. We did it with the Patriot Act. Indeed I would expect a second civil war to break out, where those on our side will fight under the authority of a breakaway state--an entirely lawful and proper position to take in spite of the garbage the Lincoln apologists have spewed out.
     
  11. Can'thavenuthingood

    Can'thavenuthingood Member

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    They are coming to get them...........one city, county, state, or federal law at a time. One feature, caliber or safety device at a time. One child's mindset at a time.

    The actual fight I think is in the classrooms of our school system. The zero tolerance mindset that anything to do with guns is not proper behavior for a child. Kids are being expelled and suspended for drawing a picture of a soldier or a gun. Don't point a finger, a might be loaded with further hazardous schooling.

    Don't play dodgeball as it encourages violent behavior.
    Stifle those feelings of frustration or you'll be put on Ritalin or some such drug.

    Following the letter of the law is a primary concern for these adults. No point in looking at the intent of a law or regulation as it applies to a kids intentions as in a "show and tell" piece in school, throw the deviant out.

    The schools teach the kids that a parent cannot discipline them or we can throw your parents in jail, you have rights you know.

    Fewer youngsters are getting into the shooting sports because they don't see or feel the need to since they are taught that guns are bad and who needs a machine gun for hunting.

    Who needs to hunt anyway? We have all the food we need in the grocery store. Animals have the right to live unmolested, ask PETA.

    And then the children become politicians. The ones that don't already have the training to follow the rules and regulations or suffer the consequences.

    The right to hunt wasn't an arguement way back then because it was a way for most people to get meat on the table or campfire, it was a given.

    Like someone else on THR mentioned, I don't think they will come to my door and get my guns. They will go to the manufacturer and stifle ammunition production. Then all I have is a really big knife or a club.

    Molon Labe is good in an armed conflict against a "seen" enemy. We are up against a majority of the educators and administrators of our education system supported by the mainstream media.

    Of course thats just my opinion from where I sit in my little corner of the world.

    Vick
     
  12. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Hopefully true. The LEOs that I consider my CLOSE friends would be in my fighting position anyway.
     
  13. clown714

    clown714 Member

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    DITTO,

    what thumper,said.

    clown
     
  14. sendec

    sendec member

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    I've also wondered.....

    after all, if I remember my history, the 300 Spartans were all killed, Athens fell, so it was pretty much a waste of resources. Dramatic, yes, but dead is dead.

    And it is a little dramatic. Do people honestly believe that some day G-men are gonna fast rope out of Blackhawks for our guns? This is the same gummint who looses bowel control when a 19 year old GI puts a dog collar on a POW? The same government that screeched to a halt over hanging chads and the definition of "sex"? That's giving them WAY too much credit.

    I've also wondered, hypothetically, if God or some omnipotent being offered us eternal peace and freedom from violence if we turned in our guns, how many would refuse to do it. I think for some people the "continuing crisis", be it crime or gun control, is half the attraction.

    I'm not a big believer in sloganeering.
     
  15. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    Where was the armed resistance in 1934? In 1968? In 1994? There wasn’t any. Will there be armed resistance in 2004, if the “assault-weapons†ban is renewed? Not bloody likely.

    The stakes have never been high enough for anyone to fight back, and they never will be high enough unless the gun controllers make some horrible strategic blunder. They need not ever confiscate our guns. To win, all they have to do is make it ever more difficult to acquire new firearms. When it’s all over, our grandchildren—the few that bother with the hassle of owning guns—will be storing their single-shot .22s at those vanishingly rare gun clubs.

    ~G. Fink
     
  16. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Nope, I don't. Nor do I believe that the local sheriff will ever forced into a position to have to do it.

    But I do believe that you have to have some idea of what you WOULD do. The teeth of liberty are worthless without someone to pull the trigger.

    I'll say this and somebody please try to argue it:

    If you aren't willing to pay the same price the Founders were willing to pay,
    you don't deserve the Rights they enumerated for you.
     
  17. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

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    perferating Barney,
    or Andy would do nothing.
    to stop a snake,
    take off the head

    Its all about Aunt Bee.
     
  18. FPrice

    FPrice Member

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    "What I will NOT do is put a bullet in Barney Fife on my front porch because the Senate happens to be particularly stupid."

    I haven't read all the reasoned responses to your post so I don't know how the discussion is going. But I will add my two cents.

    I do not intend to start blindly shooting anyone, however I also don't intend to line up and voluntarily hand over my firearms.

    But between now and then, I am doing what I can to prevent it from coming to that.
     
  19. 444

    444 Member

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    "But personal ownership of my Ruger 10/22 will not be justification to put a 230gr. JHP into center-of-mass of my local sheriff."

    Two problems here: #1 You local sheriff isn't the one that enforces federal firearms laws. He might end up being put in that role but at present, this isn't the case.
    #2 You appearently have chosen to become totally subservient to the state. Apperently it doesn't matter who they are, or what they are, you are going to be a good boy and do whatever they tell you. You don't care if the "laws" they enact and enforce are just or moral. For that matter you don't make any decisions about what is just and moral: you look to them for that. If they say it is right, it is right. If they say it is wrong, it is wrong. Appearently if Joseph Stalin was your local sheriff, you wouldn't consider objecting to anything he says ?

    Hopefully everyone on here has seen the movie, Schindler's List. One thing that really struck me about it was that the things they were doing were perfectly legal. In their society, they were doing good. When you sent Jews to the ovens, you could go home and tell your mother what you did and she would be proud of you.
    I remember taking a Philosophy class in the short time I attended college and we were discussing right and wrong, morals, laws etc. The professor made a statement that hit me with the same impact as the movie: in Nazi Germany, the law was whatever Hitler said the law was. If it changed daily, then it changed daily. And the people were expected to follow it, no matter what it was.
    You appearently are one of those followers. You don't have a set of priciples that you will defend, not just for yourself but for your family and the future generations to come. You will stand by and let it happen knowing in the end that you respected a badge that didn't deserve that respect.
     
  20. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    The notion that door to door confiscation will immediately follow legislation banning all firearms is a huge stretch, not to mention a leftist's wet dream. Then to further extrapolate that each one of us will be forced to shoot the local sheriff showing up to accomplish said confiscation is even more far out.
    (Although, if the above were to happen, you'd better start shooting, because there will be much worse in store for you anyway.)

    Your premise is flawed.

    "Molon Labe" means that as an American, my government operates and exists at my pleasure and with my permission. "Molon Labe" means that I have a natural right to self defense that cannot be compromised or abridged by any government. "Molon Labe" means that I understand my natural rights, that I am an American, and I will not suffer tyranny or slavery without resistance.

    Do you remember the Cold War and the acronym MAD? It means "Mutually Assured Destruction", and served as the operating principle to preserve peace during the arms build up between the U.S. and the former Soviet Union. Each side was able, and willing if necessary but only if necessary to obliterate the other. The fact that we are armed serves as a deterrence to tyranny in this country. It is my sincere hope that we remain armed and that no further action will be necessary..
     
  21. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    Sounds like a good case for serious militia activity.
     
  22. The Rock

    The Rock Member

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    I'm not really sure what to say, so, in the interest of keeping it civil, I will leave you with a quote from Samuel Adams.

    "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

    TR
     
  23. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    Although valid to some degree in large urban areas, I think that's an unrealistic assessment. They cannot "disinvent" the firearm and it will always exist until antiquated by a superior technology.

    BTW, Hope is the first step on the road to great achievements, also. :)
     
  24. GunGeek

    GunGeek Member

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    DITTO, for some of us Molon Labe says it perfect.

    I don't condone revolution, it's just not that bad, but if it ever got that bad who do you think will win? The side with the guns or the side who gave them up?
     
  25. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    Neither am I. I would , however, kill to protect my liberty, and that of my daughter. I would kill to keep my family from being subjects rather than citizens.
    Personally, if it can to a mass confiscation, I don't think it would be Barney. I think the UN would be called in to help. I would have no problem making those blue helmets ring like church bells.
    As someone else said, whatever happens, we need to have an idea of what to do.
    As for voting from the rooftops, If it came to large scale gun confiscation, ie Australia....
    Well, I don't find it so detestable that someone would follow the advice of our founders.
     
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