Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by saiga308, Jan 23, 2020.
I bought one when they were $49. I don't think it was really a bargain.
I bought my first one for $40 at a local gunshow. It was ok, have had better ones since.
I recall buying one at an estate sale a couple-few years ago that did not have a bolt. I figured it would either show up in one of the boxes or, I'd simply find one at a gun show or order one.
MAN!!!!!!! Was I shocked!
IF I could even find one, they wanted waaaaaay more than I ever thought the rifles were worth.
That was my re-entry into Mosin waters for the first time since they were $79.95.
Eventually, I scored a VERY sweet M-44 to go in my carbine collection and now, I believe that I am done buying Mosins for this lifetime regardless how low they may return to.
So very many other, more pleasing guns to use for projects and they hold zero collectible fascination for me.
One of the coolest things I've ever seen is that family on *Life Below Zero* subsistence hunting with surplus Mosins and ammo. Now THAT is Mosin-cool!
The first one I remember buying was when I was 10 or so, had dad buy it for me. It was in the gun shop he worked, in the rubber made garbage can. Think it was $25.
Well, if my stock market investments had gone up x3-5 times like the value of my Mosins did in the past five years, I'd be retired now...
To folks that like new rifles, the Mosin is a dated, kludgy design, does not fire a modern cartridge (no 6.5 Creedmoors), has weird lines, poorly adapted to scopes, heavy, and the issued stocks are nothing to write home about as far as check weld and recoil absorbance. The shellac and coarse production economies taken during WWII also don't attract casual interest. You could also say the same about 1950's and 1960's cars, old homes and buildings, land in a particular area, a stock, a bond, etc. Life is a series of tradeoffs.
As far as Mosins, they are historical artifacts of a time, place, and country, and an antique. Those that like antiques and the history will pay the freight to own one and maybe to shoot one. Those that do not, won't. They will buy something else. That is how markets work--it is the sum of all the individual decisions of buyers and sellers in a market on a particular good. Given the supply is restricted with no new large scale entrants, then it breaks down to the utility given to buyers when acquiring one and to the seller for the money/trade utility gained in the exchange. Those saying they would not pay X for it, no one buying or selling one currently cares as they are irrelevant to moving the price curve up or down absent a large secular change in market preferences. The same I would not pay X for that argument could be said of revolvers, polymer pistols, modern hunting rifles, classic hunting rifles, British and German doubles or drilling rifles, antique blackpowder rifles, and so on. Don't like or appreciate a Mosin, then move on. Its ok--other people don't like your interests either nor value what you do the same. Anything is worth at the point of sale what the buyer is willing to pay and the seller is willing to sell for--at that moment, nothing else, including gun forum posts, matters when the exchange is made.
To me, the really interesting thing is that with the AR deluge, new handguns of all sorts, the cheap new hunting rifles under $500, plus all of the assorted used hunting rifles floating around there, we are blessed in the U.S. to be in a golden age of firearms as a tool regarding both price and function.
I am wondering however, if an Axis II, for example, goes out the door at $350 or so with scope etc. new, what will those bring when they are sold and what price effects will they have on older budget rifles and sportered milsurps.
Will it be the spare parts value? Will these new rifles become collectable? Will there be a dedicated Ruger American collector someday that has to have all of the cartridges etc., Will someone brag about their low cost Remingtons or Savage Axis ? Or, will these simply reflect the depreciated cost of new rifles that have gotten banged up etc. AR's, especially parts made, have a similar issue--I suspect that the folks best get their value out of their high price accessories by shooting them as I doubt that the sum of the parts used will bring the price that was paid for them new. Ditto for the polymer handguns in mass production: Glocks, M&P polymers, Walthers, etc.
Popular, inexpensive rifles' values tend to follow an inverse bell curve on the used rifle market. They drop in value after initial sale, drop more when discontinued, then slope down to bottom out at some point.
After a while nostalgia usually kicks in and brings value up a bit, then wear and tear thins the herd further and increasing scarcity tends to kick the price up further, then it is likely to become a collector's item... .
Currently imported military surplus usually skips the first few steps, bottoming out when import numbers peak.
Then, when the bulk of the surplus items have been sold, prices begin to rise until collectible status has been achieved.
So far, this sequence has been consistent regardless of the quality and utility of the weapon in question.
A less desirable may bottom out earlier and have a lower collectibility peak, but the curve will be similar.
Weapons with a high initial value will usually follow a similar curve but it will normally be a shallower curve that may top off considerably higher than its initial value in equivalent funds.
I can tell you right now that giving away an axis can be some work......
I doubt there will ever be a collectors rush to on the cheaper rifles of today. There IS something of a collectors market for old cheap guns tho, so hey i could be wrong lol.
ARs I think may turn into a bit of a collectors market. Stuff like early colts, and some of the premium or unusual complete rifles, may become collectible. I can see specific PARTS as becoming collectibles.
I think the rifle used in life below zero is finn m-39. the finns took a Russian mosin and remodled it into a fine rifle. top rifle is a finn m-39, bottom rifle is a Russian m-91. on the last photo the topis a m-91 and the bottom is a finn m-39.
Interesting. I do know that decommissioned AR parts from Colt, etc. when they go on sale at places like Sarco, sell out quickly at higher prices. So you may be right.
The other stuff, like old cheap top break .32 short revolvers, store name shotguns or vanished brands like Noble, single shot Smiths, etc. don't seem to be bringing much despite being sometimes over 100 years old. Maybe that is where the Axis rifles in the future lie but the difference is that many of those aforementioned firearms would be of dubious safety whereas ones made of modern steel since the 40's or 50's, at least, absent abuse, should still be safe to fire. Have to ask my pawn shop buddies about these.
here,s a pretty hard to find finnish rifle as only a couple thousand were made(not made up later), double rear sling slots for ski-bicycle use.
Guns like the savage axis will be regarded in the future the same way we regard stuff like Sears store brand rifles and shotguns from the 50's and 60's. A functional firearm will always have some value but guns like these basically set the floor of what a gun is worth.
Eastbank, you take great pictures. Thanks for sharing.
Then you also got those guns that DO develop a following like the Remington 788s, Sav/Stevens 340s. Not exactly highend collectibles, but you can buy a new cheap gun for less than you can get a decent 788 or 340.
I come across those on auction sites and lgs that I frequent. Have to take a closer look at them although I am not really a hunting rifle kinda guy but I like innovative actions. The Savage 340 that I saw at an LGS was a .30-30 and priced pretty high. But .30-30 bolt actions are kinda rare if you can find one at all. Haven't really looked at the 788 at all and so I looked it up and they are also a pretty innovative bolt design with a rear locking design and multiple bolt lugs. From what I read, Remington also made a .30-30 in it. I reload for my level action when I shoot it rarely so might be worth a look see. Thanks Loonwulf--at least on one of these, it is parts fixing on a smaller scale if anything needs to be done. Neat rifles.
Cabela's prices around here are excessively high.
Mosin prices aren’t getting cheaper in North Carolina, they’re going higher. The last few gun shows I’ve attended have cemented that. I recently paid $250 for a matching numbers 1942 91/30 with laminated stock.
As far as cheap commercial bolt guns go: I’ve got modern rifles to hunt with if I choose, but enjoy shooting the old military surplus rifles. I’ve got a couple modern rifles with iron sights, and they’re only moderately more accurate than a nice 91/30. That 91/30 rings steel at 300 yards, and I’m extremely happy.
That would be the gentleman who posted post #14, and yes he likes Finn M-39's.
I would pay big $$$ to have the lower from my issue M16A1, as it was made by H&R. Yes, Harrington and Richardson. They made them one year, 1964, because Colt couldn't make the initial order alone. Of course, it'll never happen, becuase it is a full auto by ATF definition, thus will never be a CMP item.
Actually the .30-30 340's are the only ones that command a premium. It used to be because they were excellent first rifles for kids in a fairly mild round. Now I have no idea why they go for what they do.
here is my mosin, it's a finn 28/76 that I picked up as a barreled action that had the sights removed. Has a .308 bore and loves 178gr eld over 50gr varget in norma brass.
Mine was $89 about 10 years back, I couldn’t believe the $400 tag at Cabela’s!
Just finished a live auction. Bidding in person and proxybid online. Lampi auction if anybody is interested. 2 M91-30s sold. Both with full accessory kit. Tula arsenal, both 1930's. One round receiver, one hex. Nothing especially rare, but on the higher end of desireability for 91-30s. Typical Russian refurb force match. Both were pretty cherry for post war refurb in terms of overall condition and bore. Both sold for $190 +10% buyers premium.
lol yep, on gun broker right now 17 pages of Mosin for sale, one guy has two pages of listings himself with at least a $350.00 starting price PLUS they expect you to pay the shipping also and don't forget the transfer fee also.
I don't know why they the gun sellers think they are justified in pricing them that high, just because they are not coming over anymore but there are still loads for sale everywhere.
My pair of M44s (MNs) acquired in 2008 were without a doubt the coolest-looking bolt-action rifles I've ever owned---
--but 6-8" groups at 50 yards were the best I could do with either, mounting the rifles on a bean bag/wooden support (rifle bench). Ammo was surplus Bulgarian in the usual dusty, gray tins.
Maybe the majority of the MNs seen lately by the OP suffered from serious muzzle wear, or people didn't like the recoil?
Otherwise, increases in surplus ammo prices since 2008 must have reduced demand.
Easy enough to simply ask or do a quick search. Caribou posts fairly regularly on here. He has always struck my as a down to Earth guy before I ever watched an episode of their show.
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