"Most accurate" again in IDPA... help me speed up

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Shot my German P226 in a local match yesterday. Fun match including one with targets out to 50 yards. I placed third overall (1-2 were masters), 2nd overall SSP, and first in SSP expert. Most accurate overall. Now I need to speed up. I have gotten most accurate a few times but the really fast guys still miss faster than I can hit. They are 40-50 seconds ahead at the end of the match even with a lot more points down. Any suggestions for ways to get myself to speed up? It's really a mental block. I'm worried about getting hits and I can't speed up for fear I'll start dropping points down. At least I think that's what it is.
 
I usually look at what I've found to be common things to slow folks down.

Are you resetting your trigger in series or parallel?
Are you waiting for your conscious to confirm sight alignment or trusting your subconscious?
Are you arriving at shooting positions with the gun up on target and ready to shoot or do you have to look for your sights?
 
You won't go faster in a match by simply trying to go faster in a match, since you'll simply do only and exactly what you've trained yourself to do. To go faster in a match, "faster" has to be your new default, so you need to push yourself via dry fire and practice at the range with a par timer to make it your new deafult. Contrary to the cliche, slow may be smooth, but it ain't necessarily fast. There are plenty of dry fire and training manuals out there - maybe check out Ben Stoeger's books on dry fire and live fire.

Couple other points:

- IME, the sweet spot for accuracy is (was) around 10-12% - meaning that your time from points down added about 10-12% to your raw*. Much lower than that, and you likely could have gone faster. Much higher than that and you were likely shooting beyond your control. I won my share in IDPA, and have never once won "Most Accurate". Those who win rarely do, though they tend to be fairly high on the accuracy ranking.

- Keep in mind that shooting/reloading fast and accurately is only part of going fast. Another (even bigger) is moving fast and efficiently. Practicing fast and efficient movement pays big dividends and should be part of your practice session (at home via live fire and at the range).

At the range, you don't need to actually shoot a bunch to practice movement - shoot a round, move to position B and shoot another. Repeat. (a par timer greatly helps). People frequently and consistently lose time upon their arrival at point B because they arrive at point B not ready to shoot - the gun's down and not remotely pointed in the direction of the target, they're not looking at their feet instead of the target, etc. Practice arriving at Point B and breaking the shot as soon as you see the target. I call this drill "Show Up and Shoot".


* Since IDPA went to 1 second per Point Down, the "10% Rule" might be more like "20%" now. Matter of fact, it's not very thorough, but I checked the scores for the top 6 SSP Masters at the 2016 Nats, and they averaged 26.5%.
 
40-50 seconds is a lot of time to make up.
Whats your draw to fire time? Do you have video of yourself to analyze where you can speed up?
The most common thing you hear the great ones talk about is calling your shots and getting in and out of position quicker. They are gone before the steel falls and are not waiting to see hits on paper. etc.
i.e.
 
One tip I struggle to focus on myself is that subconscious sight picture @9mmepiphany mentioend above - fire on your first good sight picture, & if you've mentally acknowledged the sights are on target, you've lost time. No extra points are earned by holding on target for any more than the split second you need to recognize the sights are on the target, so don't spend time hovering and confirming. It's super easy for me to get too comfortable in the mental process of "get on target, on target, still on target, still on target, fire..." A guy can break a shot immediately at that "on target" point in time. As soon as the sights are on target, the bullet will hit.

When I do dynamic defensive handgun classes, I often see students taking a long time after the pistol is leveled before breaking the shot - I'll usually single one person out and ask them to demo a draw and single shot on target. They take a shot. I ask them to repeat, and once they draw, interrupting their shot, I ask - "are you on target?" Almost unilaterally, the answer is yes, so then I ask the student - "why haven't you fired the shot if you're on target?" I do the same thing myself - too much time behind a precision rifle trying to eek out the perfect POA... It's a bad habit for me.
 
If you haven't done so yet, you need to experiment with how far out of alignment your front sight can be, in the rear notch, and still make "Down Zero" hits. Start by making shots with the front sight touching either side of the rear notch, then repeat with the other side of the notch
 
For me, it was efficiency of movement that picked up my times/placing.

Having your gun up and ready before you get to a shooting position helped.

Anytime I cross a distance I try to see if a reload with retention will help keep me from having to reload while I am engaging targets. It isn't always applicable but depending on your reload proficiency it should be faster to reload with retention on the move rather than shoot, stop, reload, reacquire targets, shoot.
 
Can you practice run IDPA-ish course of fire anywhere? There's a local club by me that allows people to setup a course in one of the bays. It's $1500 to join, and $300 yearly dues, So I haven't yet.

If you can, run the course without your sights. No sights, hammer them off a Glock or something. Skip targets 20+ yards away, hit everything else. When you can do that well, go back to sights. I suspect you're spending waaaay too much time steadying sights and staging triggers.

Obviously you need sights for the long shots, but I've gone entire stages point shooting. They placed all the targets within 10yards!

What kind of waste movements do you have?
-seating a mag and hitting it twice?
-drawing with a swing up or down (aka fishing & bowling)?
-reaching past the barricade instead of just staying behind it, sliding out and shooting?
-doing tac reloads properly on stages that call for it?
-not using the slide release?
-mags that don't drop free?

It's not really fair to judge a winning run against faster, but losing runs. Anyone can dump a mag into the berm.
 
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I usually look at what I've found to be common things to slow folks down.

Are you resetting your trigger in series or parallel?
Are you waiting for your conscious to confirm sight alignment or trusting your subconscious?
Are you arriving at shooting positions with the gun up on target and ready to shoot or do you have to look for your sights?
I don't know what the first thing means; second I think subconscious because I don't really remember seeing the sights after the stage; and I'll have to think about the third. I surely can improve.
 
I don't know what the first thing means
If you are pining the trigger to the rear after the shot, like you would when shooting a rifle, then releasing it to reset, as it returns from muzzle flip, before pressing the trigger again...that is resetting the trigger in series; a series of actions
 
I am far from an expert but:

"For me, it was efficiency of movement that picked up my times/placing."

This seems to be the easiest way to shave seconds.

I shoot (too?) well and time from holster to target is decent. However after I sequence from a barrier etc I look like a fool on film. "ok, got them, now what?" adds 2 or 3 seconds when you should be banging away.

I suppose it's stage planning (especially when shooting revolver) but hauling butt to the next place of engagement can shave so much time off. I'm relatively young and the ability to move can shave multiple seconds off when other guys are moving like a beer gut juggernaut.

Also, this practice is free. I'm between sale jobs and snap caps and stop and go movement is free... Its like running a 3 man weave in basketball or cone drills in soccer. Its not a "shooting" fundamental but its probably the biggest difference between a good club level shooter and a guy that places high in regional matches.

HB
 
I suppose it's stage planning (especially when shooting revolver)
Stage planning becomes critical with a revolver. Basically all your stages become Limited stages because your reload take 2-3x as long and you're only loading 6 rounds with each reload. The danger is slowing down too much to get good hits (except on steel), when "good enough" really is
 
^ You're telling me. I shot some indoor IDPA -ish matches this winter with a m66 smith and it was great practice for shooting a semi. My accuracy was superb but I basically shoot 1 shot in the time it takes to pop 2 with a semi. Guys love a short reset... wait until your reset is 3/4". BUT I learned a lot. You reload 3x as much and your reloads cost 2x-3x more time.

It was fun and its easy to win your class. Actually probably the best practice you can get, but it gets old when the stage has you walking down a 2x4 on a walk and fire on a 32 round stage.

Had several instances where my HKS hung onto a round but somehow I finished with the exact number of rounds required.... gave up on carrying a reload for the snub after those. If you want my hide after 5 rounds of well aimed fire, you earned it.

EDIT: I am a cheap bassturd so put speed strips in my left breast pocket as a talisman against running out of those pesky $8 HKS.... I'll look up the practiscore but I usually placed middle of the pack on club level which says something to the indian not the arrow.


HB
 
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Have you tried Steel Challenge? The greater emphasis on speed has really helped some buddies and I trust our subconscious site picture and also learn how fast we can go. Something about the instant feedback of hitting steel provides much faster and believable feedback on how fast we can go and still have "good enough" accuracy. I'd start shooting Steel Challenge matches once a month for as long as it takes you to lower your total times to improve to the extent desired. If you interweave your IDPA matches, you will see your times improving.

Real speed is somewhere between point shooting and waiting for conscious confirmation that the sights are aligned with the target. But you have accuracy, which is the bigger battle. Keep it accurate, make it smooth, learn to trust your instincts on when the sight picture is good enough. Learn not to demand perfect visual confirmation.
 
Yeah I usually shoot steel targets in practice or in other non IDPA matches. I've placed well in steel challenge and have won a couple man-v-man steel competitions. Which may be part of my problem. Without the audible and visual confirmation of "good hit" I sort of wait or really get on the sights to make sure I hit center on paper. I should probably start shooting paper more, not less. At least to my way of thinking.
 
I suppose it's stage planning (especially when shooting revolver) but hauling butt to the next place of engagement can shave so much time off. I'm relatively young and the ability to move can shave multiple seconds off when other guys are moving like a beer gut juggernaut.


HB
good advice and I just wanted to say I'm changing the name of my country thrash metal band to beer gut juggernaut. LOLOL :D
 
good advice and I just wanted to say I'm changing the name of my country thrash metal band to beer gut juggernaut. LOLOL :D

You have obviously never seen Matt Hopkins. Whom would likely trounce every ones rear on this board, if you "get" what I am saying.
Size, Age, etc. is really an excuse! If you really want it, you have to put in the effort! Dry Fire, Dry fire, Dry fire, run around your house with a full glass of water without spillage, etc. etc. etc. There are so many things we can do without firing a single round in our homes/yards.

The only other piece of advice Ill give is stop switching guns!! Stick with one and run with it.. I say that only because you have posted vids/advice of shooting other types of guns rather than the one in your OP.
 
Dry Fire, Dry fire, Dry fire, run around your house with a full glass of water without spillage, etc. etc. etc. There are so many things we can do without firing a single round in our homes/yards.

The only other piece of advice Ill give is stop switching guns!! Stick with one and run with it.. I say that only because you have posted vids/advice of shooting other types of guns rather than the one in your OP.
Good advice. I generally stick to my P226 in IDPA, at least since they changed the classification rules.
 
As was said before, you have to practice going fast to learn what it feels like. In fact, you have to practice going TOO FAST, so you can learn what THAT feels like, in order to increase your overall speed and to learn how fast you can still go while earning acceptable hits. Don't try to shoot that pace in a match though.

Get a buddy to record you and post the vid. There is likely a lot of non-shooting stuff you could be doing faster to make up that time, although some of it is surely shooting and gunhandling time as well, improving your splits from .30 to .20 won't help as much as cutting a second off your moving reloads or half a second off of a long transition.

I would recommend following a structured training program, like one from Ben Stoeger's books and working through it piece by piece. Taking a training class from a top shooter can jump start your progress too but you have to be willing to follow up by putting in the work.
 
Actually to be fast in anything the first thing to do is develop as near perfect technique as possible. If you don't, you'll never be good.

In martial arts we learned techniques slow, then we learned to go as slow as possible. Then we worked on getting faster and faster, until we'd go as fast as possible, then we'd practice slow, medium and fast.

I mention this as the same applies here. The fine motor skills have to become automatic. If you have to think you'll never be really fast. Likewise, you have to learn to tense all of your body except for the part that's moving, then make sure that's as relaxed as possible to move it quickly.

So I'll argue just going fast will make you a fast sloppy shooter. To be a good fast shooter you have to practice like Cal Ripken said... practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. So find a good coach, learn how to practice properly and the results will come with work.
 
While I think Hokie is right, I would caution against thinking that "the speed will come." Generally, material gains in speed do not come just from good form. You will have to push, and struggle to retain good form while you push. USPSA is full of shooters who have spent a decade in C class chanting "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" and waiting for the speed to "come naturally."
 
While I think Hokie is right, I would caution against thinking that "the speed will come." Generally, material gains in speed do not come just from good form. You will have to push, and struggle to retain good form while you push. USPSA is full of shooters who have spent a decade in C class chanting "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" and waiting for the speed to "come naturally."
I'm with you 100%.

Just to be clear. I said that form needs to be worked on first, but then you have to keep practicing that, plus speed. Hence working slow, medium and fast.
 
Sure.

It's like learning to race cars or other vehicles. To begin with, you need to learn how to operate the vehicle well enough to drive around the track at street speeds without crashing. But eventually you have to learn to go fast, and there's no way to get there without actually going fast. I suspect for most shooters, that requires going too fast some of the time... pushing beyond their limits in terms of tracking the sights or pulling the trigger straight back. I'm guessing there are basically no very good race car drivers who did not spin out a number of times as they learned how to go really fast.
 
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