Most accurate defensive pistol I've ever owned.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Trey Veston, May 27, 2022.

  1. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    Took my XDM Elite OSP 3.8" 10mm back to the range today to see how my latest woods defense loads fared.

    Tried 190 grain hard cast bullets, 200 grain Hornady XTPs, and 200 grain Speer Gold Dots. All were tested with Accurate #9 and CCI standard large pistol primers.

    All were able to achieve my goal of 2" or better 5-shot groups at 25 yards, with a rest.

    But the loads using the Speer Gold Dots were just amazing.

    I achieved the smallest group I can recall ever getting with a defensive pistol at 25 yards. 3/4".

    IMG_20220526_182001842.jpg

    Did a video of the range session on my YT channel...



    Achieving such accuracy with 620 ft. lbs. of energy in a concealable pistol with 11 rounds of capacity seems pretty amazing.
     
  2. JJFitch

    JJFitch Member

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    How accurate does a 3.5 inch EDC have to be? Maybe shooting a bear between the eyes!

    3" group at 15 yards to a "hood-rat" COM will get the job done in 99.5 % of all self defense threat stoppers!

    Making a head shot at 25 yards and claiming self defense when ANTIFA shows up is a subject for a different thread! :)
     
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  3. Pat Riot
    • Contributing Member

    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    Nice job! :thumbup:
    I do not own a 10mm, but have been considering one.
    I am curious.
    Is your Speer Gold Dot load a factory load or your hand load using Gold Dot bullets?
     
  4. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    This is a interesting topic. For certain the shooter influence on dispersion is greater in offhand pistol than rifle, but none the less this result suggests that quality, but not ideal, ammo still makes a large contribution.

    I'd like to see a repeat, a couple more 5 shot groups, and a group shot from rested on a bag.

    Good shooting!
     
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  5. Frulk

    Frulk Member

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    Well that’s just ridiculously good shooting out of a 3.8 inch semi auto barrel at that distance. I carry a revolver only because I’m noticeably more accurate with it than with any of my semi autos.

    What are your groups without using that red dot?
     
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  6. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    This was an evaluation of my hand loads using Accurate #9 powder. 12.5 grains gave me an average of 1170 FPS and 620 ft. lbs. of energy

    No idea. Likely much worse, lol. I have it on there to develop the loads, then will take it off when ready to start training with it.
     
  7. Frulk

    Frulk Member

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    Thanks…regardless of with or without red dot those are stellar results.

    I’ve long held that 6 rounds are sufficient with a speedloader as a backup. However, I’m currently reassessing that stance in light of recent developments in the news.

    I know for a fact the polymer semis I have (all sub compact) with me behind the trigger will not be able to replicate the groups you’re producing.

    I do have a full sized DW Heritage with Crimson Trace Grips that I all but abandoned in the bottom of my safe. Not for lack of liking it just got sidelined because at the time I also came across a couple of .327 FM revolvers and dove into them. Think I’ll pull it out and see what Im capable of.
     
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  8. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Good shooting!
     
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  9. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    What are "woods defense loads" for?
     
  10. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Repeat that offhand and I'll be impressed.
     
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  11. Y-T71

    Y-T71 Member

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    Coincidentally, my most accurate was (until I got a CZ P-01) also a Springfield Armory, an older XSsc .40S&W.

    Nobody could have ever convinced me that a .40 could've been so accurate out of any platform, let alone a sub compact but this thing shot like a literal laser beam!

    Unfortunately, it had to go to the chopping block to help pay for wife's medical bills.
     
  12. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    Long-long in the past my USMC days. One qualifies with the weapon they were issued. With an issued weapon one could tell quickly the individuals that were excellent basic marksman's. One can turn shooting into an equipment race but its the shooters ability that precludes everything else.
     
  13. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    Wolves, cougars, and drunk white trash.

    Had a pack of wolves come in while I was camping and stay just outside the camp fire light. They left a present for me I found the next day 25 yards from camp...

    iLLmd9BHRUSUwTE_96qnlg.jpeg

    Found this guy on another trip caught in a leg trap set by a federal trapper...

    xvHSi_AzRAWVbIx9GkO8jQ.jpeg
     
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  14. entropy

    entropy Member

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    The look on his face. " How stupid can I be?"
     
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  15. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I have several that are pretty accurate. A Sig 228, A Sig 229, A Browning Hi-power, the list goes on. But the most accurate is a Walter P-88.
     
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  16. jstert

    jstert Member

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    i measure accurate handgun defensive distances at 7 yards max because any potential target beyond that in my world isn’t a direct threat, likely according to my adjudicating district attorney’s standards.

    my best ccw at 7 yards is a taurus 85 38sp j-frame, steel, snubbie revolver loaded with wadcutters, 2” group accurate. ball ammo opens up this group to 3”. a ruger sr22, a likely old age carry piece, is soda can accurate at 7 yards. all not great but good enough.
     
  17. Terry G

    Terry G Member

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    CZ P-01 in 9MM. CZ 97b in .45.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
  18. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    The most accurate guns I have routinely carried were my Springfrield Loaded 1911 I had in the early 2000s, the few HKs I have owned, and the gen 5 Glocks have been pretty impressive. Ive had other really accurate handguns but I didnt carry them regularly.
     
  19. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Other than the paint job, any other mods to the gun?

    also, why remove the red dot to train with the gun?
     
  20. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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  21. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    IMG_0094.jpg
    For me, it would be the P7 with its excellent sight picture, pointability, and low bore axis.

    This was 25 rounds, rapid fire, at 7 YD-

    IMG_0097.jpg
    And yes, it was getting hot by the 3rd mag swap.......but I did carry it once, just to say I did.:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
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  22. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    An excellent carry gun.

    Supremely accurate, reliable, great ergonomics, nice and slim, good trigger.

    But an awful range toy with how fast it over heats.

    I carried mine fairly frequently while I owned it.
     
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  23. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    No mods other than my crappy paint job, which I may remove or replace soon.

    Regarding the red dot... I know it's a sensitive subject and I certainly do not have a firm stance on it. But... I have found that target acquisition in full sunlight on lighter targets with a red dot is nearly impossible. I have also found that the two red dots I have experience with (Burris Fastfire III and Vortex Venom) do not play well with my astigmatism, are bulky, require the use of "silencer" sights for redundancy, and generally are just too much hassle for a carry gun. They attract lint every few days that requires cleaning, and I am just so much faster with plain old iron sights.

    Now, I know that a lot of people love them and say you just need to train with them. I have found that for 25 yard accuracy, they are simply the best. So, that is why I did load development for the the SA with the red dot, but when carrying in town and the woods, it will just have the irons.
     
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  24. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    obcih.jpg

    Sooo...

    Do you really think that someone standing 23 feet away and pointing a gun at you is not a direct threat?

    And are you basing your self-defense training, skills, and readiness off of the perceived nonsensical and illegal standards of your local District Attorney?

    Really confused by your post...
     
  25. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    I hear ya. I have a few thoughts. Not trying to sway you, just thinking out loud…

    1. Like another poster said on another thread, in a defensive situation, use the window as a large peep sight. If you’ve done some dry draw/fire and are comfortable acquiring the sights, it’s fairly straightforward finding the sights fast.

    2. Consider an optic with a circle + dot reticle. I’m not sure what your options are based on the optics footprint but the outer circle draws the eye in to the center. Holosun has some different options. I have a Vortex Venom (my first red dot. Fine for the range, I use it on a .22. I wont carry it as I’m not a fan of the battery life.

    3. I’ve gotten over cowitness and iron back up sights personally. If you are concerned, I’d suggest just replacing your front sight with a suppressor height post, but like I said earlier, if my dot dies, which has never happened since resigning the Vortex to the range, I’ve got a large ‘peep sight” still. And the stock front sights are still visible if I tip the barrel down just a bit if really necessary.

    4. Finally, your astigmatism…I’m guessing you see the dot as a starburst? How bad? I see the same thing. But the fact is that my iron sights are also a blur to me these days, regardless which I use, so I find the illuminated dot to still be a better option regardless.

    Just some suggestions. Not trying to tell you what to do. I’m 59 and had PRP at 40 years old to bring my 20-350 vision to 20-15. My eyes are not as sharp as they once were but I still function without glasses for most things beyond a computer screen, but pistol sights are sadly just a blur. I’ve learned to embrace the blur, but the dot makes a huge difference, especially in low light situations (in buildings, woods, or night).

    Good luck.
     
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