Most compact 12 gauage?

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I live and play in California bear country. Occasionally I bring my hammer double in 12 gauge, which is short, handy, and kicks the snot out of me. More often, when I am concerned about critters, I just bring my .500 S&W. It's a lot more portable and just as unlikely to be used.
 
WisBorn said:
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I agree that a small single shot is a great choice. This one is a American Tactical Nomad.
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Congrats!Great bang for the Buck. Not to mention accepts Beretta Mobile chokes and has sling swivels. The Turkey model also comes with a drilled and tapped mounted scope mount. And don't forget the ability to add on Shortlane adapters for different gauges and calibers.
 
Ernie Bass said:
Midland backpack. barrel 18 1/2" easy break down. And only weighs 4 1/2 lbs. Well built and so easy to carry and maneuver.
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I like the gun, but it would not be my choice for bear country.

I suspect that there might have been a very good reason for professional hunters having chosen double rifles to back up clients who carried bolt action repeaters.
 
Kleanbore said:
I like the gun, but it would not be my choice for bear country.

I suspect that there might have been a very good reason for professional hunters having chosen double rifles to back up clients who carried bolt action repeaters.
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I like the choice of a side by side coach gun.

The single shot is just a light compact choice that doesn't cost much money. The shockwave or similar pistol grip shotguns would also be a good choice.
 
I read an article about forty years ago extolling the sawed off double shotgun. About two years ago I got one. It's an easy matter to cut the barrels down to a legal twenty inches with a dremel tool. You get two wicked shots. Quick handy reload. The double's advantage comes from having no receiver to speak of - your pumps, etc have half a foot of mechanism to contend with. The double will break down to twenty inches. In store bought form it's called a "Coach Gun" and comes with or without hammers. Stoeger and others make them in a reasonable price range. I cut one down 'cause the side-by-sides aren't in favor now and there are deals to be had.
 
As has been mentioned....... the Kel-Tec KS7 Bullpup shotgun would fill the need very well.

It's more compact then any standard shotgun and unlike the Mossberg and Remington Shockwave type guns, the KS7 has a buttstock and recoil pad that allows fast, accurate shooting.
Carried on a sling it can be swung into action very fast.

26 inches long and an 18 1/2 inch barrel, which makes it legal everywhere.
Weighs 5.9 pounds unloaded.
Holds 7 2 3/4 inch shells or 6 3 inch Magnum shells.
Shoots slugs, buckshot, and birdshot very well.

The odd looking carry handle/sight actually works very well and there's no need to turn an electronic sight on or pop up iron sights.
If wanted you can buy a factory rail like the one for the KSG and mount any sight system.

The KS7 is the KSG, improved, and with the much simpler single magazine tube.
Any new gun bugs have been corrected and they WORK.

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This is handy. Remington TAC-13. Cruel, utterly reliable, and surprisingly light recoil with their Versa Max gas system. The bird head grip had to go and the arm brace works better for me. Great truck or trail gun in big bear country.
IMG_E3682.JPG
 
dfariswheel said:
As has been mentioned....... the Kel-Tec KS7 Bullpup shotgun would fill the need very well.

It's more compact then any standard shotgun and unlike the Mossberg and Remington Shockwave type guns, the KS7 has a buttstock and recoil pad that allows fast, accurate shooting.
Carried on a sling it can be swung into action very fast.

26 inches long and an 18 1/2 inch barrel, which makes it legal everywhere.
Weighs 5.9 pounds unloaded.
Holds 7 2 3/4 inch shells or 6 3 inch Magnum shells.
Shoots slugs, buckshot, and birdshot very well.

The odd looking carry handle/sight actually works very well and there's no need to turn an electronic sight on or pop up iron sights.
If wanted you can buy a factory rail like the one for the KSG and mount any sight system.

The KS7 is the KSG, improved, and with the much simpler single magazine tube.
Any new gun bugs have been corrected and they WORK.

View attachment 946948
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There seems to be no middle ground with the KSG/KS7, people love them or hate them. I find them awkward and cumbersome.
 
cdb1 said:
There seems to be no middle ground with the KSG/KS7, people love them or hate them. I find them awkward and cumbersome.
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Which is why we live in a free country and we can buy more than "A" gun.
The Kel-Tec's either fit you or they don't, like any other firearm.
If you're not used to a bullpup they can be awkward and difficult to get used to.

However in certain situations these ultra compact guns can very much fill a need, such as having to move around inside a close area where you may need to use the other hand to open doors but be able to fire a shot.
As a backpack outdoors gun the size might make it ideal with the very short length but still with a butt stock, and might be the answer to an anti-bear get out of my face solution.

I find that almost all other more standard type shotguns, and the Mossberg and Remington Witness Protection type guns are way too muzzle heavy.
In order to hold standard guns and the Moss and Rem would need a wrist like a bodybuilder to hold up on target.
Bullpups put the balance point in the middle of the gun and it's much easier to hold in a shooting position.

But.... it either fits or it don't.
 
Having shot the Keltec and CSMC's DP-12 both had major issues trying to feed mini shells. Both had intermittent failures to feed normal 2-3/4" shells. They strike me as some sort of range toy not reliable enough to bet my life on. YMMV
 
A big thing that’s been overlooked is folding stocks. 18” barrel and PGO is likely cutting it awfully close on 26” if it’s not under. A folder can make the gun the same length for carry, but within a half second the folder can be deployed to make the gun much more user friendly if it is needed.
 
WestKentucky said:
A big thing that’s been overlooked is folding stocks. 18” barrel and PGO is likely cutting it awfully close on 26” if it’s not under. A folder can make the gun the same length for carry, but within a half second the folder can be deployed to make the gun much more user friendly if it is needed.
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When I bought my Mossberg, it came with a PGO and was (and still is) perfectly legal without the need for a stamp. Where the 14" barrel guns get away with it is that they use a bird'shead grip which makes the 26" OAL requirement
 
George P said:
When I bought my Mossberg, it came with a PGO and was (and still is) perfectly legal without the need for a stamp. Where the 14" barrel guns get away with it is that they use a bird'shead grip which makes the 26" OAL requirement
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Yes, but OP is in California and anything fun is illegal there. Folding stock 18” guns should be no larger (not much anyway) than a PGO gun or a shockwave so I would think a folder to be the best option.
 
labnoti said:
The risk the black bears present in California and throughout the Sierra Nevada and Cascade ranges is pretty minimal:

The last fatal bear attack in California was in 2008, but it was a captive bear used in movies that killed a handler.

Before that, an animal trainer was killed by a Himalayan Brown Bear at the San Diego Zoo in 1942.

Those were the only two fatal attacks in California in the last 150 years. Prior to that William Waddell was killed in 1875. He was deer hunting. He was only just bit by a Griz that left him and took off after after his dog (it was the dog that had provoked the bear in the first place). Waddell had his arm amputated by a doctor but died six days later from the infection of the wound, which would have been easily cured with antibiotics developed since. I lived for a little while just down the road from the grave of his amputated limb which was buried near where he was attacked. The rest of his body was buried at the cemetery in Santa Cruz. All the Griz were wiped out of that state by the 1920's.

I've encountered bears in the Sierra frequently, and I never felt threatened.

I'm not suggesting that a person be defenseless, but that these bears are not the threat that you want to arm yourself against. You have a great deal more risk from other humans. Last year there was nearly 5 homicides per day -- more than bears have killed in California for 170 years. Your risk from other violent crimes is just staggering compared to any kind of bear attack.

Besides that, the Black Bears are not much bigger than people. Most of them are around 200 to 300 pounds. Occasionally an especially big one will top out at 600 pounds. They don't require munitions unique from those used for defense against human attackers they way that brown bear do. Small brown bear males weigh 800 pounds and big ones can weigh 1700 pounds. Those are the bears where ammunition designed to penetrate and expand in humans may not penetrate sufficiently, but they don't have them in California for 100 years now.
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This is very sound advice.

There are a lot of internet warriors out there, including plenty on this site (I don't mean to call anyone in specific out by this comment, by the way), that don't have the experience or knowledge to give the best advice. I am by no means an expert but I have spent years living not just in bear country but in brown bear country including Alaska. I have spent hundreds of nights in tents in bear country. I have never been attacked but I have had some frightening encounters with bears including one in which a grizzly tore up my tent while I happened to be inside it.

That all said, here's what I've learned not just from my own experience but from speaking to others who know a lot more than me:

Bear attacks-true attacks, not just curious young bears figuring out what you are-are very rare. They happen so I do think they are worth being mindful of but I wouldn't get paranoid about them. A lot of being safe is common sense. Keep your food away from where you sleep. Don't go pussy-footing around by yourself making no noise. If you see a bear don't go approaching it. Next, as for defense, bear spray is safer and more effective than a gun most of the time. It should usually be the first line of defense. But it isn't perfect. There are stories of people who have used bear spray ineffectively, and it has limitations such as short range and very limited spray time. Plus it isn't all that useful in certain places (i.e. inside of a tent). So. I do happen to think there are times when it is a good idea to have a firearm but those situations aren't all that common. In black bear country in a place like California I honestly don't think I would carry a gun for bears. But if you do feel the need to carry a gun...read this article:

https://www.petersenshunting.com/editorial/which-firearm-is-best-for-bear-defense/272018

Shotguns with slugs do not have the penetration of a rifle but in general they are plenty. I carry a Mossberg 590 with Brenneke Black Magic slugs. Small, easy to pack, reliable, and easy to shoot. If you are competent enough with a pistol (I will admit I don't think I am) then a pistol is a lot easier to lug around, and more usable in certain situations like if you happen to be pinned to the ground...or inside of a tent (see a theme here?) Years ago I think a lot of people would have told you any semi-auto pistol is not a good choice and 10mm is definitely too small. That seems to be changing. There are a lot of 10mm Glocks being carried around up in Alaska and people have killed bears with them. For black bears I'd think a 10mm is plenty. Combined with the ease of use of a Glock compared to something like a .454 Casull revolver, that's probably what I'd want. A pistol that you carry everywhere is better than a long gun that you leave back at camp while you go poking around.


PS. Another thing to look into if you camp in a tent is an electric bear fence. Some people might make fun of it but after my fun little tent experience I consider it a necessity in some places. No amount of firepower is gonna help you if a griz comes tearing into your tent while you're asleep and chomps on your head before you can even get your hands on your gun.

Hope this gives you some useful things to consider.
 
WestKentucky said:
Yes, but OP is in California and anything fun is illegal there. Folding stock 18” guns should be no larger (not much anyway) than a PGO gun or a shockwave so I would think a folder to be the best option.
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Is a folding stock legal in CA?
 
What about a bullpup 12ga ?

I think there are at least 4 on the market aren't there?

Garaysar MKA 1923
Tristar Bullpup
Panzer Arms BP-12
ATI Bulldog Bullpup
 
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