Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by wombat13, Oct 18, 2021.
A makeshift rest can cause the same problems.
The "gotcha-YANK" trigger pull system manifests as this sort of problem as well. No serious shooter would be guilty of such. Not me, surely. No. Hunh-nah.
Doesn`t everybody do that? LOL!! You put two in there really close...and then....for who knows why......??
That’s the thing…almost all of my crap shots are to the side, not up or down. Also, the flyer is more often to the right (I’m left-handed).
Edited to add: The measurements shown on the target is for the four-shot group. The farthest right shot is the cold bore shot. It was 8 degrees that day so the barrel wasn't heating up too much, so I fully loaded the magazine and shot the five rounds.
Even if the barrel is cooled the act of getting it hot will have an affect on the moisture content of the stock. A wandering zero from season to season is another symptom of this.
Perfectly acceptable for most applications.
The Ruger is in a laminated wood stock. Do they have the same humidity problems? The Savage is a plastic stick so I doubt that has anything to do with humidity. I’m not sure why humidity would cause shots 2, 3, and 5 to group and shot 4 to be 2” to the right.
1- not achieving natural point of aim for the shot
2- trigger control
3- a deficiency in use of support (rifle sliding on bag, loose bipod, etc.)
4- wind effects (unlikely with a 338 WM at 100).
Vertical movement is usually a result of mirage, the 'dancing' of the air leads to 'dancing' of the bull.
Since the variation in shots is rather small, perhaps a bedding problem, which allows a tiny shift of the barreled action in the stock, this causes the entire rifle to recoil slightly to the left or right resulting in marginal errors. If that is the problem, it will be quite subtle.
Is this a hunting item or a target piece? If a hunting rifle, the accuracy might just be more than adequate. I also suggest keeping a record of shots to determine if the first shot is closer to the mark and how far and what direction shots 2, 3, 4 and so on impact to see if one can find a pattern to the shot holes.
What sort of rest system do you use?
No, it tended to raise the POA. The fore end stock is flat and the support under the fore end was flat. The bottom of the stock rear stock is sloped, so pulling it back even slightly lowers the rear of the stock slightly and raised the POA maybe 1/2". I then put downward pressure on the barrel just in front of the scope to get back to the bull.
It could be a bedding problem, I suppose, but I'm noticing something similar with multiple rifles. That suggest to me that it's something I'm doing rather than a rifle issue. So far, the targets I've posted are from a .338WM Ruger M77 in laminate stock (the first one) and a .25-06 Savage Axis II (plastic stock).
These are both hunting rifles (all of mine are). I know the accuracy is good enough, but I'm trying to refine my technique. Also, flyers make it difficult to develop handloads. Difficult to know if the rifle doesn't like the load or if I messed up the shot. Even if I know that I messed up the shot, a flyer means I would have to reload that charge weight and is a waste of time and components.
Here are a couple targets from my Ruger Hawkeye .300WM. Look at that Federal factory load. Group looks very similar to the factory Nosler BTs in the Savage. Eliminate the horizontal dispersion and I'd be pretty happy with the handload. I've been hunting the last two years with the Federal factory ammo. What I find particularly interesting about these two targets is the "pairing" of shots. Both loads have two pairs of shots that are touching or nearly so. Then there is a fifth that is by itself. I think it is clear that I'm doing something to cause that.
Hunting groups vs. target groups. Purpose of the gun is indeed something to consider, IMHO, when looking at groups. In my own case with my .223, I`m looking for " Minute of coyote". Accuracy is more important than absolute precision in a hunting rifle. Again, IMHO.
With a handgun, the causes are much more obvious; flinching, pushing the handgun, yanking (even subtly), 'bucking' and so forth.
With a rifle, the problem is much more subtle and hidden. Tensing up of the upper body - notably the shooting shoulder - differently for various shots will cause variations in impact site. Tensing of the arms, hands or irregularities while breathing can subtly affect the hits.
Possibly having someone else watch you might give a clue. Or video yourself shooting and watch yourself for possible quirks.
Without seeing you shoot in person (I live in Nebraska) that is the total of my thinking.
Maybe have a buddy run a few groups for comparison
Off the bat, I question trigger pull. I have a Ruger .22Hornet that would do that until I took the trigger down to 2.5lbs (was ~7lbs).
Also, when was it built? A pre-M77/MkII made after ‘81 is suspect for the barrel.
I had a gunsmith friend who purchased a M77 .338wm circa 1983. With his load (300gr Nosler over IMR4350) it wouldn’t shoot tighter than 6” at 100yds and he had an Alaska hunt planned in 6weeks.
Ruger refused to warranty accuracy at the time! He called a contact at ERShaw and had a contour duplication barrel sent. Received it in 2weeks. Installed it and took rifle/ammo to range. After collating, and verified at 25yds, the first three rounds at 100yds “touched”.
He took a B&C moose with it and a 10’ bear.
He sent the Ruger barrel, test groups, and pics of game and copy of E.R.Shaw invoice to Ruger.
3mos later, article on hunt appeared in an Alaska journal and discussed barrel swap and Ruger accuracy problems.
He soon received a personal apology letter from none other Bill Ruger! He showed it to me.
Bill Ruger sent a check for the cost of the E.R.Shaw barrel with no other explanation...
The 180gr load groups look like what my .338/06 would shoot with a 180gr Nosler B.T. (Adams &Bennet barrel).
I returned the original.30/06 barrel to it last year as I killed my first deer with it circa 1976.
It’s a MkX Mauser and with the original barrel (Wilson, I’m told) will shoot sub moa 5-shots.
The A&B barrel never would shoot better than 2.5moa (5-shots).
I’ve found that using a good target that can be bracketed and easily seen makes a world of difference. Most of my hunting scopes are still 3-9x or lower in magnification and pin point accuracy hampered by thicker crosshairs that obscure more of the target. That’s something else to consider.
Ruger 10/22 I believe at 25 yards.
Winchester 30-06 at 100 yards.
Completely agree. Expecting bench accuracy from a hunting rifle that has more free recoil than some people's punches is a bad idea.
A scope that doesn't allow you to have your head far enough back with said high recoil rifle can induce a flinch.
I started shooting my 6 pound Whelen using shooting sticks because I don't care what it does from a bench. Neither do the deer I killed with it.
Shooting a hunting rifle/scope from the bench (zeroing the scope aside ) IMO just shows that the gun is accurate enough, or not, to get the job done with a given hunting load and that any misses will be on you. Having said that, I do enjoy just shooting my .223 for fun with non-hunting rounds to work on precision. I know the gun itself is accurate enough.
Here's a little aiming guide that normally helps me get dialed in.
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