Most rounds without cleaning...

[hey_poolboy]

I think there is a "difference" in cleaning the gun and cleaning the bore. I tend to clean the bottom of my 1911' s more than I clean the bore. I shoot mostly lead and have found that the accuracy is better after 30-40 rounds.
I've gone from only cleaning every 1k or so to cleaning based on when I may next be able to shoot the gun again. If it's gonna sit for a while I clean the whole thing. If I'm gonna shoot again later in the week I'll field strip and wipe out the remnants of Bullseye or W231 and call it good.
I used to be more obsessive over cleaning, but life is too short.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ash]

Walt, some of us climb through swamps...

Sinking Spanish ruins normally submerged. I've got a research project on the site and if you look closely, you can see the water-stains on the brick surrounding the casement tunnel. The other photo shows the same tunnel in water. The third photo shows tunnels on the opposite side.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Walt, some of us climb through swamps...

You'll notice I wrote "most civilians..."

So, are you CARRYING during those treks? (I suspect I'd want to be...) If so, what weapon and what loads?


.

 

[Ash]

Stainless Ruger Police Service Six in .357. I use Remington hollow points. I have also carried an EAA Witness in .45acp with Golden Sabres. The historian I work with carries a Beretta INOX. They get muddy, very muddy. Humidity is very high and there's plenty of brackish water.

We've made some outstanding discoveries that will soon be published.

 

[RedAlert]

I don't understand the OP on this topic. To me it sounds just like if he wants to know how often a person can beat their head against the wall before he is knocked out. Sure you can do it; but why?
Weapons are machines that function best when well maintained.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Weapons are machines that function best when well maintained.

True, but what YOU might consider "well maintained" may differ from what someone else considers "well maintained."

 

[Ash]

At the same time, what is the big deal that folks would prefer to put things away clean? I do the same to my dishes, even though I am reasonably certain my glass can take a few months without cleaning.

 

[F-111 John]

I'm a revolver guy and I thoroughly clean my firearms after every range session. It's a fairly long and dirty process, especially cleaning the cylinder faces and around the forcing cones. I end up with a pile of dirty patches and about 20-30 minutes per wheelgun.

Got a G26 last December, and after it's maiden run at the range, I brought it home to clean it, and I couldn't believe how clean it was inside. It was almost as if it was never fired at all. If it was that clean after 150 rounds, then I can see why some go 500+ between cleanings.

(I also field stripped and cleaned my G26 new out of the box before the first trip to the range.)

 

[usp9]

A short quote from the interesting Greg Bell "Break my P2000" thread.

"I cleaned the pistol this week. The gun was insanely nasty. It was so gross I just let it soak on Thursday before I finished brushing all the mess off on Friday before I went shooting. I did not really notice any difference. The P2000 really is foolproof. The gun not only had not been cleaned in 4000 rounds, it hadn’t been lubricated. The gun was DRY as a bone and it could care less."

He goes another 4 or 5 thousand rounds without cleaning later on in the test.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/51749-project-break-my-p2000.html

I'd never do that to a gun but it's good to know how tough they really are, and that some of them really do not need to be pampered.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I tried a similar exercise some years back with a CZ. I put about 3000 rounds through it before it finally became so nasty (when the slide was open) that I was ashamed to let anyone see it. I cleaned it.

It continued to function throughout that period, which was maybe 4-5 months, of regular practice and IDPA matches.

 

[Shifty]

I seriously do not understand this debate.... Why would you not clean and lubricate a complex machine subjected to high temperature, stress, and having sliding metal parts? Just because it still works doesn't mean its good for the weapon.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Couldn't you use that SAME rationale to change the oil in your car every 1000 miles, rather than 3,000, 5,000 miles (or higher, with synthetic oils)? That engine is a lot more complex than your handgun, and it's arguably operating at very high temperatures over a range of conditions, and sometimes under much greater stress, etc., etc.

 

[Shifty]

Yeah, I concede the point on that.

My comment was more aimed at those that do not feel the need to clean their firearms until they malfunction.

 

[aliveisalive]

I hate cleaning in every sense. Just like most things I only clean once it really bothers me. This lackluster approach has led to some surface rust but never anything else. I now wipe my guns Dow. More often but still don't clean them much. They keep on shooting.


It also helps that I rarely keep a gun for more than 500 rounds before its traded =p

 

[Ash]

Walt, that's an exaggeration. Nobody here recommends cleaning a gun after every magazine, which is the same as changing oil every 1,000 miles (which is to say, more often than what has always been conventionally done). The same argument perhaps could be in changing synthetics every 3,000 miles - but that has absolutely nothing to do with the design of engines, only in the design of lubricants.

It is apples and oranges. You change the oil, yes, because it has become dirty but more because it has begun to break down. Not all engines, by the way, should use synthetics. Even so, more modern engines can often have MORE problems with sludge, not less.

If you want to use a cleaning analogy, our bodies are a better representation. Yeah, we can get by without taking a bath daily - that is the case in most of the world already. But I choose to bathe. You can get by running a dirty gun, but I choose to clean mine. You can get by with a dirty house, but I choose to clean mine, too.

 

[ku4hx]

It also helps that I rarely keep a gun for more than 500 rounds before its traded =p

I can't even imagine that. For me and my wife that would be a trade every other range trip. But then I'm an old curmudgeon still driving my 1999 Ford F150 and still shooting my Remington model 67 .22 rifle.

One of my great joys is drinking beer and cleaning guns ... sort of a Zen thing. So much so my wife kids me about it. Mind you, that's cleaning and not shooting.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Walt, that's an exaggeration. Nobody here recommends cleaning a gun after every magazine, which is the same as changing oil every 1,000 miles (which is to say, more often than what has always been conventionally done). The same argument perhaps could be in changing synthetics every 3,000 miles - but that has absolutely nothing to do with the design of engines, only in the design of lubricants.

It is apples and oranges. You change the oil, yes, because it has become dirty but more because it has begun to break down. Not all engines, by the way, should use synthetics. Even so, more modern engines can often have MORE problems with sludge, not less.

And what is the handgun equivalent of sludge? I'll bet you see it more in cars than guns.

Given the experiences cited in this long chain of messages, of extended periods and high round counts between cleanings without malfunctions or failures, it would appear that the analogy we're using has nothing to do with GUN MAINTENANCE or DESIGN, either.

If powder and primers were still corrosive (and some milsurp ammo used with milsurp weapon is corrosive) then the story might be different, and the analogy apt. As I've said before, clean as often as you want to, but don't expect everyone else to do as you do.

There is little evidence that the intense, frequent, and rigorous cleaning is necessary, a small bit of evidence that it may be as harmful as good, and a lot of evidence that going either route (cleaning either frequently or infrequently) is not going to cause problems. Going to extremes is what seems to cause problems.

Some here seem to consider cleaning weapons a necessary religious ritual. Fine. But not everyone is a true believer.


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[jdh]

If you want to use a cleaning analogy, our bodies are a better representation. Yeah, we can get by without taking a bath daily - that is the case in most of the world already. But I choose to bathe. You can get by running a dirty gun, but I choose to clean mine. You can get by with a dirty house, but I choose to clean mine, too.

As with everything in life too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. There once was a compulsive cleaner who scrubbed he counter tops everyday with a scouring pad. Couldn't understand why her pretty laminate was now a solid dull brown. Excessive cleaning of the skin can lead to problems of an uncomfortable nature.

 

[Ash]

Excessive, yes. But cleaning after a range session and putting it away clean is not excessive.

Excessive would be cleaning after every shot.