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Mounting a MG on an airplane

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by NoAlibi, Oct 27, 2011.

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  1. towboat_er

    towboat_er Member

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  2. NoAlibi

    NoAlibi Member

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    Your “unedumacated ignerntz” is forgiven. If you had a question about my plane all you had to do was ask and I would have been glad to answer it. The Cassutt IIIM, my particular version, is 15’ long with a 17’ wingspan. So, yes it is small and without a visual reference (person, car, etc.) near it, it could be mistaken for a model.

    If you lie, then you should be called on it. Mike’s statement was a statement not a question. He doesn’t know me to be a liar, or honest for that matter, and he should have raised his doubt in a question i.e.,, “That airplane looks too small to be a real one. Can you tell me more about it?” And I would have tried to satisfy his doubt.

    Mike apologized saying that he did not intend to offend and I believe him. Apology accepted; situation resolved, like it never happened.
     
  3. NoAlibi

    NoAlibi Member

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    Actually a U-10A (Civilian counterpart = Helio Courier) for the interdiction missions we were flying. Otherwise C-130s on supply runs. Our interdiction unit was disbanded in December 1971 after our intel dried up.

    My Cassutt has the tall pilot mods. I have to use a cushion to be able to get my head high enough over the panel to be safer. I said safer rather than safe because the nickname for the bird is “The Casket Racer”. The five-time national Reno champ was killed in it a few years back. It’s a handful - 120 on final, 100 over the fence and it quits flying at 75. Becaause of the high angle of attack at these speeds, if you’re not in a forward slip you’ll never see the runway while on final. After that there is only looking out the sides of the canopy or the right and left fuselage mounted lexan panels..
     
  4. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Oh, a fully equipped and combat-ready P-51 Mustang....the ultimate pipe dream! I can't even imagine the costs and legal hurdles though.

    And anybody ever wonder about how many deaths/injuries may have been caused in WWII by falling .50 cal bullets and brass? Millions of 'em fired up there, they all had to land somewhere.....
     
  5. NoAlibi

    NoAlibi Member

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    I was only planning on a max of 30 rounds - just for grins. However, if my neighbor doesn't stop his dog's incessant yapping I might go for a drum! ;)

    I just want to put the rounds anywhere in the berm - a second gun and convergence is more than I wanted to get involved with - this is just supposed to be for fun! Rigging an interrupter so I can shoot through the propeller arc is waaay beyond my ability.
     
  6. NoAlibi

    NoAlibi Member

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    I would use 2 cable units, much like a lawn mower's throttle cable; one to actuate the safety and the other for the trigger. KISS works for me.
     
  7. NoAlibi

    NoAlibi Member

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    Definitely a possibility if there are any game animals in the vicinity of the "strafe".

    I used to hunt the Loop Road unit in the Big Cypress National Park. The rules specifically stated that it was illegal to shoot at animals from a moving vehicle. Their rules defined a vehicle as an automobile, truck (including tracks), boat (including airboats), horse and/or airplane.
     
  8. NoAlibi

    NoAlibi Member

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    Right. The NFA is just my first stop. Contemplating all the hurdles, this task is taking on monumental proportions. If the regulatory folks had a sense of humor I would ask for forgivness rather than permission! :rolleyes:
     
  9. CFletch08

    CFletch08 Member

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    That would be the coolest nfa ever, although it may not be terribly useful for t
    he time/money involved. On the other hand, how many people can say they have one?

    Serious bragging rights
    Guy 1: "Hay look at my tricked out AR. I put over $3000 into it!"
    You: "Wow that's really something. Take a look at what I brought today..."
    Guy 1: 0.0

    I bet the local gun nuts would love you. The local liberals? Not so much. All the more reason to do it...
     
  10. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Well, now that it has been brought up, I also thought that was an RC model airplane.
     
  11. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    If you end up doing that, I`m sure I`ll be reading about you in the paper!
     
  12. axxxel

    axxxel Member

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    You could mount a red dot on the rifle and a video camera directly behind it. I'm pretty sure it's not too hard too connect the camera to a small screen in the cockpit. You could even install remote controls to use the camera zoom...
     
  13. Ex-MA Hole

    Ex-MA Hole Member

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    I thought it was an RC model, too!!!

    Glad I wasn't the one to invoke the wrath for making a statement!

    Wow....off to find more prune juice....
     
  14. barnetmill

    barnetmill Member

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    I wonder if the ATF might consider a plane plus machine gun to be a destructive device. But then I think you can still do the correct paper work. If you have a lot of money and time perhaps you could find a .22 rim fire gatling gun that you could actuate with a foot pedal like the old sewing machines.
     
  15. Gaiudo

    Gaiudo Member

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    It looked like a model to me too. Does that make me a liar?

    Silly way of going about things.
     
  16. Sky

    Sky Member

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    Laos There was one down in a valley that looked like it might have had an engine failure (?) and landed in perfect condition. Always thought about trying to sneak in with a UH-1 and sling it out....UH-1 Not that sneaky and after the Chinese built the highway down through Laos ( 2 AAA battalions) I decided it was a bad idea for me; Uncle Sugar would have taken it from me anyway, but man I thought about it..Another great airplane for in and out low and slow. Some of the Pilatus Porters had the mini gun in the cargo hold....

    http://www.google.com/search?q=pila...&ei=C66qTonSI4f50gGGiPSQDw&sqi=2&ved=0CD8QsAQ

    Would have been rather difficult in the Courrier I would emagine but being a Marine nothing would surprise me with arms for your type of mission?

    Pics of the Currier for those who do not know what one looks like: http://www.google.com/search?q=heli...&ei=UK6qTqiSKufY0QHXhMyMDw&sqi=2&ved=0CEoQsAQ

    P.S. Glad we saw what we did and made it back mostly intact. Salute
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  17. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    NoAlibi... You're absolutely correct that I worded my post very poorly and I understand how you thought it was accusatory. I'm sorry for that.

    . . . If you follow through with this project I'll be watching with great interest... and jealousy. :)

    towboat_er... That's a fascinating web link. Those planes are definitely tiny... and VERY cool!!

    ETA: This airplane's diminutive stance is precisely why it looked like a model in the photo... we assume an average-sized aircraft photographed at ground level. The small size combined with moderate height enhancement of photographer (perhaps standing in the bed of a pickup truck?) gives the image an uncommon perspective. At any rate that's what assuming does to our "viewpoint" and "perspective".

    If I hear a midget aircraft approaching followed by distinctive "rat-a-tat, rat-a-tat" sounds... I'll know to duck and cover. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  18. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    alright guys, stop the model conversation... don't want to lock an otherwise interesting thread
     
  19. husker

    husker Member

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    What about bird bombs or a smoke grenades?
    Smoke rockets, do they make such a thing? Shooting some kind of rocket from your plain while in a steep dive,that would smoke once it hit the ground or target. Man that would be fun & to cool.
    Awesome machine you have there NoAlibi. I would luv to see pics of some you built.
    Ive seen pics of RC-models plains. He does real nice work to.
     
  20. Acera

    Acera Member

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    If I remember correctly, on Dillon's aircraft they take the weapon off their mount and store them when flying to their range area. Once there, they remount them and do what they want to. (That does not make sexy TV, so it's not shown)

    I would worry less about the BATF and more about the FAA and Homeland Security. Possibly flying an armed plane over populated areas might draw a little concern, even if those populated areas are scattered farms.

    A buddy went on a helicopter hog hunt, and said they were stupid safety conscience with the rifles. Feared that a "brandishing" charge might be filed by someone outside the hunting area looking up and seeing a guy hanging out the door with a rifle. Everything was secured inside the helicopter until they got to the fields, then re-stowed on the flight back.

    This does not even begin to talk about your breaking a number of the 4 safety rules. Since the weapon will probably be loaded with a round in battery when you take off, think about all the muzzle sweeps you will be doing. The 5.56 round is nothing to be trifled with, a simple malfunction could send rounds where you don't want them and cause some serious damage.

    Same goes for the model airplane thing. Think what a field day the medial would have, and how the members here would react to a story of someone doing that and having an accident.
     
  21. Hacker15E

    Hacker15E Member

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    To the OP: Have you ever done air-to-ground gunnery/strafe with fixed, forward-firing ordnance before?

    You say that you flew Helios and Herks in the USMC, but unless you were FACing in the Helio, I'm not sure if you would have actually shot anything forward off that or not.

    Strafe is actually a complicated maneuver which requires a good amount of prior planning (altitudes, dive angles, slant ranges to the target, fire range/altitude, cease fire range/altitude, dive recovery computation, "safe escape maneuvers" which ensure that you don't get hit by your own ricochets, etc).

    It's not something to be done just for kicks, unless you particularly want to plant yourself nose-down into the dirt, over-G your airplane, or get fragged by your own bullets or stuff they kick up into the air (all possible outcomes of improperly planned or executed strafes).

    Also, you have to make sure the area you're shooting on has plenty of area in case you have an off-range inadvertent or unintentional shot(s), or something happens during your strafe pass, like a "hung gun" (ergo, it continues to shoot after you come off the trigger, and keeps shooting as you recover from the dive, spraying bullets all over your forward flight path).

    Strafe is serious business that, in the military tactical flying world, takes lots of planning and is introduced/trained to in very controlled situations at very controlled locations.

    If you know when you're doing, then more power to you. If not, then IMHO it's one of those things that is best left to the realm of "what if" daydreaming because the possible unsuccessful outcomes are pretty bad.
     
  22. northark147

    northark147 Member

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    RC knows EVERYTHING. Which is no fair, noone should be allowed to have that much knowledge.. lol
     
  23. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    This involves 3 laws:

    1) NFA laws - you're good to shoot your gun so that's settled.

    2) local laws concerning shooting from a moving vehicle.

    3) FAA laws.

    What you want to do is out there idea-wise, but probably totally legal. You may need to clear it with local pd too. If people can own operational tanks, I don't see this as impossible. Also, 40 acres is way too small. You need like 4000+ acres.
     
  24. MrWesson

    MrWesson Member

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    I had to take a hard look at it as well I think its the camera angle that makes it look smaller.
     
  25. 22lr

    22lr Member

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    I want to see this happen. Couldn't you use those glaser safety rounds to eliminate the ricochet risk? It would be a lot more expensive, but id think it would be a lot safer.
     
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