Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by MatthewVanitas, Apr 28, 2014.
(and even more glad I live in Texas..)
I really don't think it's money, since their fees have just gotten lower over time, and for a population this small it has to be a net cashflow negative to have even a few full-time personnel (and an entire room in their main building) set aside just for this.
The purpose of bringing the guns in person used to be so they could take it somewhere and fire a few rounds, keeping bullets and brass for future forensics. But it appears they don't even do that anymore, so the only function of physically hauling guns across the capital city is for them to say "yup, that's a gun all right." At least they don't count bayonet lugs as a feature, so some common sense there.
So far as DC's crime rate, on a list of the 75 cities over 250,000 in the US, DC comes in 14th for overall violent crime, 18th for murder. So for overall vc, it's about half the rate of Detroit, twice that of Greensboro or Fresno, and on-par with Miami, Nashville, and Houston. Though as you can see in the map below, crime is heavily concentrated into a few areas (including the area I live in, a mile or so north of the White House). Glancing at other stats pages, murder victims tend to be overwhelmingly African-American men in their 20s, so the risk rate for people not in that demographic is notably lower. Pretty standard results of cyclical poverty.
Anecdotally, I only know a couple friends who've ever been mugged in DC. I never have (despite walking alone in iffy areas frequently), though I did once get punched by a really drunk guy and he was arrested for that. Never known anyone to get burglarized in my circle, though petty vehicle crime (smash and grabs, tire slashing, etc.) seem high. On average I'd say I call the police about four times a year here, usually not for any personal crisis, but just observing something unsafe like teens fist-fighting, drunk guy throwing rocks at cars, driver damages a parked car and speeds away, that sort.
This map is way dated, but gives you a rough idea of homicide distribution, and the prevalence of guns for homicide. The chunk of land in the east, separated from downtown by the river, is the famous Annacostia neighborhood. The middle and lower portions of it compose the notorious 8th Ward, currently represented in the City Council by legendary ex-mayor Marion Barry.
Overall I don't find DC a particularly dangerous city for me, though there are areas I wouldn't linger in after dark, or would meet a female friend at the subway stop rather than have her walk over by herself. But DC has gentrified massively in the last five years, and overall the crime here isn't a patch on what it was in the 1980s when the city was in Detroit-style collapse.
Matt the SCR is DC legal. There are already two registered .
By the way you can have it shipped to a VA FFL and bring it in that way paying $25 instead of $125 to Sykes.
Also the DC forms an FFL in VA or Maryland has to fill out with you are on the mpd website, so you don't need to go twice to DC firearms office (although you do need to go twice to the va or Md. store).
Like you I would encourage EVERYONE in DC who wants a firearm to get one or more.
In my view, Emily Miller, who had obviously never registered a handgun in NJ or Md or a dozen places which are MORE difficult or time consuming, did a huge disservice to potential DC gun owners given DC is easier and faster than a number of places, espc in the NE US.
Yes the laws and steps are bogus, but they are in fact less than elsewhere.
Virtually all DC murder victims are gang member s, people associated with them or involved in the drug trade. Indeed if it were not for the navy yard shootings it would be over 95% the past few years.
If you are not a gang member or career criminal you are safer in DC (and the US) than you are in London
Maybe if you stay on the Mall. The demographics, according to the 2012 census, works against you.
When you move to Idaho, if you don't own a gun, they give you one.
What in the heck are you referring to by that? Strike that ... probably better not to go there.
I lived in DC for 5 years - and never had an incident, and I frequented friends and clubs all across the city - NW, NE, SW - in neighborhoods of all types. A little common sense will go a long, long way, in any city. There are neighborhoods in just about any city where one does not venture lightly.
I don't necessarily agree. She chronicled her journey, following the instructions of DC MPD and other "experts." Her experience in registering a firearm in DC was hardly unique during the time she did it.
Things have changed a bit - the Wash Times might want to run a piece chronicling how the registration process works now, and changes from just a year or two ago.
Respectfully, with the exception of the navy yard, it isn't just the perps, but the murder victims are almost all themselves persons gang affiliation or serious rap sheets, even at late teen ages. In suburban and rural areas about 80% of murder victims are criminals, and in US cities about 90% are.
If you are not dealing drugs, in a gang, a felon, parolee or career criminal, you risk of being murdered in the US is actually lower than the developed nation average -- including and indeed especially in our cities.
I am not talking about vs Idaho, Georgia, Tenn or Virginia, but comared to the NE US. I lived and had registered firearms in NJ and have friends with firearms in Maryland. Both are more involved and take longer to get a handgun than in DC and that is a stone cold fact.
And Miller's coverage of the Witasheck case was not sober. that was not a clean case over only a dud shotgun shell.
Getting a handgun first time in DC:
1) Check DC, Maryland, Cal and Mass allowed lists (all online vi DC firearms site) . Anything on any one of those is ok. Ie it is a bigger allowed list than anyone of those states.
2) Order your gun for shipment to DC FLL. Your ten day waiting starts with your order date.
3) Take the free, ,45 minute online gun familiarity/safety course. Print your certificate.
4) If your gun is going to arrive before ten days make an appointment with the FFL (same building as the MPD firearms office) on the tenth day from order.
5) Arrive at police headquarters with a backpack, fill out the standard federal form with the FFL
6) go up one floor, to firearms office, take an open book 20 minute test on DC laws. They will photograph and digitally print you. You pay all the fees there ($35 print fee, $13 gun registration fee. This takes one to two hours total.
7) go down one floor to the FFL, get your gun, and lock it came with, lock it throw it in your backpack and take subway, taxi or your car home.
If it is your second gun you don't need to take any of the tests, or be printed or photographed, and DC fee is $13.
1) print the 219 online
2) look at the online list of prohibited models and prohibited feature combinations (old assault rifle ban). SCR, semiauto shotguns, base mini 14 all ok.
3) go to any gun store that is an ffl in Maryland or Virginia. Buy the gun and fill out the 219 with them. You leave the gun
4) on 10th day go to mpd firearms office and if first gun take tests, prints etc. if not first gun they just look at 219 and issue a registration.
5) bring registration to out of state store, pick up your gun. any form of securing is ok, ie a gym bag with a $2 lock on zipper is ok to come back into DC.
if you don't want to go to store a second time you can have it sent to DC's FLL. Alternately if it is a special order gun you don't need to ship it to DC FFL. I had one of my rifles shipped from Florida (the only supplier in stock) to a VA FFL and did not have to use the DC FFL
I am not defending any of those laws and steps. They harm our rights and scapegoat and distract from the causes and actual perpetrators of violent cime. But they are a few hours time on day one researching and ordering your gun and a few hours time again ten days later. IN NJ an Maryland you will wait on average from 60 to 90 days to get a handgun. IN NJ you need to provide character references and a lot more invasive questionnaires for a simple home only handgun permit
Look, I don't know what your agenda is, but that's a blatantly false statement.
I grew up in Maryland. I bought handguns in Maryland. Most of my wife's family still lives in Maryland. Some of them have recently bought handguns.
They have to do none of the personal visits with government officials to get them. There is a seven day waiting period between purchase and when the purchaser can take possession so the MD State Police can run their own background check.
Unless the MD laws changed significantly within the past 16 months, they don't come anywhere close to what DC makes residents do.
Seriously I doubt you know anyone who has registered a handgun in Maryland in the past couple of years for you to doubt that. go to mdshooters and ask.
Look at the wait times 60 days -- 90 days -- 120 days. I have a friend who just waited three and a half months in Maryland for the same handgun it took me ten days from order to possession in DC
And getting a handgun in NJ? You have to be kidding to doubt the 60 to 90 day process! they have to interview your references you know
These are home ownership pistol registration wait times in NJ -- not carry wait times!
Sorry but I don't know where you say someone has an "agenda" for objective information!
Maryland is much more time consuming and difficult than DC for getting a handgun.
And personal visits in NJ, not DC.
I don't want to be confrontive at all. But I shoot quite often in Maryland and have quite a few friends there who have been in shock as their gun laws and real world experiences have become ridiculous. I also would point out that the information on NRA-ILA ( of which I am a donor) about DC gun laws is factually wrong on a half a dozen requirements that were dropped a few years ago (and I was part of one of the suits that forced them to change the same caliber ammo law).
My point is people wishing to get a firearm in DC should get one (or six like I have). It doesn't mean OI support DC laws! Merely that objectively false to claim it is worst place in the country.
Maryland and every other state in the union was overwhelmed with people buying guns last year. Other states that mandated state-run background checks had significant delays, too. Colorado comes to mind.
Maryland passed no law making wait times longer. And unless you know something I don't, those delays are over and the waiting period is back to 7 days.
Instead of using NCIS, Pennsylvania runs it's own instant check system PICS (Pennsylvania Instant Check System). It's subject to outages. Now when the Pennsylvania State Police bring that system down for some reason, does that mean PA is anti-gun, too?
I think PA is rather anti gun. They effectively register all handguns for crying out loud (illegal to transfer a handgun unless it goes through an FFL, so unless you move from out of state and bring them with you, they are basically either paper'd in your name or you got them illegally)
So that is a case of the same amount of time as DC. Other cases longer.
Look I shoot in Maryland and Va, since there are no ranges in DC. I and have lots of friends with firearms in those states.
Do NOT misunderstand me. I am no defending DC's laws. They are BS. I just know for a fact that Maryland gun rights have gone into the toilet the past couple of years where DC had significant changes a couple of years ago
I am lifetime NRA (it is probably me and one other person in DC) and a significant contributor to NRA-ILA. Yet when I go to the NRA ILA site it tells me I need classroom and live fire for a DC handgun registration when that was ended a couple of years ago,
Also it is says:
This was ended a couple of years ago, and I wrote the NRAILA two years ago about the change yet they keep this statement on their site
No, for over two years it is a free, 45 minute online test
There are other errors as well.
Again my point is not to apologize for DC laws, but to encourage anyone who wants to get a firearm here to get one. It is NOT as difficult as many make it out to be, including NRA which has objectively false statements about the process and implying it is double the cost and effort (classroom plus live fire).
I just helped a friend whose dad died move his dad's revolver and mini-14 in DC. He was convinced it was impossible. It took him 45 minutes to do the online safety course at home and then two hours at the firearms office.
Is that what we want? no. Is it way eaiser than most people think? Yes.
"I had to take an 18-question test on DC gun law, missed one, but otherwise quite easy (and open-book)."
OK ... so how did you miss a question on an OPEN BOOK test? (lol) Just joshing!
Glad to hear you haven't been victimized in any way. But calling the cops 4 times a year for other reasons? Seems like a lot - maybe just urban life.
Back in the 80s, a daring restaurant/club opened on Penn. Ave. SE, beyond Eastern Market. The Hill, esp. that direction, was not a safe area at the time. I remember the stand-up comic there had a great line: "when friends ask me for directions to come watch my act, I tell them just go up to the Capitol, then head east on Pennsylvania Ave. until you get REAL scared - we're on the right".
Spent many many years in DC. Whole area gives me the creeps now, haven't set foot there for several years (nothing to do with the crime or the gun thing, larger issues beyond THR's normal range of discussion).
He may have taken DC resident Joe Biden's advice on firing a shotgun in the air
As several have stated, that is the point where the conversation would have taken a turn for the worse. I am far older and wiser that I once was, but I will not brook that level of abuse at the hands of civil servants (or anyone else, for that matter). And as a result, I would have replied with something like "Damned right you are, son."
And as a result, I would have walked out without what I came for...or possibly, been escorted into a cell.
I am happy to see that there are people who will continue to buck the system (gently and wisely). Press on, brother--we need more people like you.
not all of us live in a pita situation. none of us should.
Separate names with a comma.