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Moving to Colorado with magazines >15 rds that I have owned since prior to 2013

Discussion in 'Legal' started by RavenTai, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. RavenTai

    RavenTai Member

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    I applied for a job in Colorado Springs. I like the area, a lot. No idea if its going to go through.

    I have been reading about the "high capacity" magazines ban, it seams pretty toothless and there is aparently a lack of enforcement, especially outside of Denver, but that could change at any moment.. I would like to know where I stand legally before I go there.


    All of my >15rd magazines I have owned since before 2013, does the grandfathering on possession apply to someone who was out of state in 2013?

    there is also aparently a ban on the transfer after 2013 with8in the state of Colorado, since I already own these there is no ownership transfer within the state.

    Looking at the law from my perspective I think I am in the clear but perhapse this is wishful thinking.
     
  2. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    Yup- It's a big cluster.

    If your mags have no date code or are dated before 7/13, you should good to go. If the gun didn't exist before 2013, than MAYBE that could be an issue?

    It's all kind of a moot point when, until the recent rush depleted stock, you could walk into dozens of Colorado gun shops and pick-up as many standard capacity mags as you wanted to buy.

    Enforcement of the law so far has been targeted at stupid people doing stupid things at stupid times and locations.

    Could that change? Yes- Our triple D state government always has something up their sleeve.
     
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  3. RavenTai

    RavenTai Member

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    I just went through my mag box, all that have date codes are pre 7/13, some date back to the 60's. (FAL) the AK mags are not dated but I know they are from the early 2000's.

    Question i have is it would be pretty easy to prove that my mags and myself were not in CO in 2013, the law seams mute here. On weather the grandfather clause applies.


    The only thing I hate more than gun control laws is poorly written gun control laws.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  4. IlikeSA

    IlikeSA Member

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  5. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    I have yet to figure out if that is by design, or the simple fact that it is a very difficult task to find a person knowledgeable enough about firearms who is willing to contribute to writing an effective gun control law, and selling their sole to the devil...
     
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  6. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Here my assessment of your situation:

    If you at any point get caught with these magazines and the fact is raised that you have not been continuously living in Colorado since the enactment of the law, you could easily end up in court. Due to the way the law is written, you may win that court case, but it's likely to cost you.

    You're going to have to make a judgement call. Find out how much it will cost you to talk to an attorney about this issue, and then decide if possessing those magazines in CO is worth that much money. If it is, see what the lawyer has to say.
     
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  7. RavenTai

    RavenTai Member

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    Do you think I will get any straight answers contacting local prosecutors or attorney generals office?
     
  8. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    I would first talk to your potential local LE organization and see their thoughts.
     
  9. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    Local prosecutors and the attorney general aren't your lawyers. They represent the government. It's not their job to give legal advice to private citizens.

    If someone wants personal, legal advice, the way to go about things is to hire a lawyer. The lawyer you hire is your lawyer.
     
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  10. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    No.

    Sorry to be blunt. But as the law in question doesn't seem to cover people bringing magazines into the State with them, I don't think a straight answer is even a remote possibility.
     
  11. RavenTai

    RavenTai Member

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    usually something not specified as illegal by a law is therefore legal, the law just specifies "Person" not "Colorado resident".

    In the plain reading of the text I am a person who has continuously owned these >15rd magazines since before July 1st 3013.

    weather a Colorado court will see it that way I have no idea. could it be inferred that the law is only for Colorado residents as it is a Colorado law?

    CRS 18-12-302 (1) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor.

    (2) (a) A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she: (I) Owns the large-capacity magazine on July 1, 2013; and

    (II) Maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.
     
  12. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    And this is why I said No.

    It seems like you could be in the clear, but someone may argue that you're not because you brought these magazines into the State after the law went into effect. It's not me you have to convince. The question is, are you willing to risk finding out the hard way?
     
  13. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    Except whether a Colorado court will see it that way is what actually matters — not how you see things.
     
  14. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    If you want no risk, follow the letter of the law in the broadest possible manner in which it can be interpreted: do not be found in.possession of magazines with a capacity greater than 15 rounds. After that, you are weighing potential risk against the potential for exposure and subsequent interpretation by law enforcement officials. I don't know anyone who pays the slightest attention to the capacity restriction, including several retailers, but that does not constitute legal advice. A nuanced opinion would best be secured from a Colorado licensed attorney with expertise in firearms laws.
     
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  15. RavenTai

    RavenTai Member

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    Not really, the Job includes a secret security clearance, witch would be very beneficial in my field, a conviction would threaten such. even a misdemeanor. thus the reason why I want to try to tack down the legality beforehand. before "Schrödinger's crime" is committed.

    The area is beautiful, and the job looks stable. but giving an inch (and the following mile) to gun control is a tough pill to swallow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  16. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I declined to sell a couple of 17 round magazines when the buyer turned out to be a Colorado resident buying "spare parts."
    I didn't see how a Colorado busybody could work a sting out of state but I did not want to find out.
     
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  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    There is nothing in there that speaks to where the magazine was created or has lived or even the owner. For that matter does not even mention visitors.

    "(2) (a) A PERSON MAY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE IF HE OR SHE:

    (I) OWNS THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE ON THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION; AND
    (II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE. "

    http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cl...E62E6F87257B0100813CB5?open&file=1224_enr.pdf

    Likely written so poorly, intentionally or what some might call a stepping stone for subsequent, more restrictive laws.

    The burden of proof (arrested or not) in court would be by the prosecution. The "continuous possession" part would be another matter all together.
     
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  18. mokin

    mokin Member

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    Welcome to Colorado.

    This discussion brings to mind the evening the bill was passed. I watched the process online. It seems that much of it was made up as the legislature went along. The restriction went from seven rounds to ten until they finally settled on 15. The impression was that this law wasn't very well thought out. As jmorris stated I believe the intention was/is as a stepping stone. I haven't heard of anybody being charged with possession of standard capacity magazines unless they were up to no good in other areas.

    I'm not a lawyer nor a legal expert. As others have advised, you should hire a lawyer and get the scoop from them.
     
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  19. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    There is also the problem of certainty.
    Laws are not made to absolute, except within their own definitions.
    A person cannot look to the law and find a guarantee.

    Now, since 1968, all gun owners are under an onus to be able to prove, conclusively, that they are without sin, or be deprived of the right to own firearms. GCA 68 made us all criminals, guilty unless we can prove our innocence. This drives us to seek out certainties, guarantees. Sadly, laws require context, and application.
     
  20. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Not supposed to bring them here. That said, you don't want to be the trial case.
     
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  21. RavenTai

    RavenTai Member

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    This statement really bothers me, whats even worse is that you are absolutely correct, but it is so alien to a "government of, for, and by the people".
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  22. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    Be that as it may, my statement is true.

    The lawyers who represent the government represent the people in the collective sense, i. e., the elected, properly constituted, sitting government of the people. They are not expected to represent any one, particular person.
     
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  23. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    No.

    Speaking anecdotally as a resident of Colorado Springs I've not heard of the police making any special effort to enforce this law. I've not heard of them hanging around shooting ranges checking magazines.

    The last time I looked there had been 118 prosecutions and 6 convictions in 7 years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  24. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    Where does the law say that?
     
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  25. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    I applied for a job in CO circa 2014/15 and I was kind of in the same boat as you (all my date codes mags were pre 2013 though). Here is what I was told when I contacted CO sheriffs:

    per above wording of the law, you could bring in “preban” mags if they had no date or were date coded. Mags with no date were assumed preban, unless they were made for a weapon that was only manufactured after said date - like a Ruger 57.

    The problem is, when I applied for my job, Colorado was a purple state leaning blue. It is now a super solid blue state. Sheriffs are elected positions. The couple sheriffs I contacted back when I was applying were republican. I think almost all of their positions have been filled by Democrats.

    I suspect, with the new sheriffs, I could blow marijuana smoke in their face, while eating a bowl of magic mushrooms and they’d write me a warning. If I had a 2020 date coded magpul mag on me while doing that, they’d haul me away in cuffs.

    My point with that hyperbolic statement is that what was once true for Colorado - everyone ignoring the mag ban- may not hold true in the near future.

    Also, the word of the sheriff is as good as the air it’s printed on. They don’t write the laws, they just enforce them. Even the republican sheriff who was pro 2a, could tell me one thing over the phone and arrest me the next day- and be perfectly legal in doing so.

    I would proceed at your own risk.

    In hindsight, I’m glad I didn’t get the job I applied for.
     
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