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Murcury Loaded JHP's...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DonNikmare, Mar 27, 2005.

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  1. DonNikmare

    DonNikmare Member

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    A friend of mine at work told me he's about to inherit a .357 along with some special JHP's. He said his Dad used to reload and took some JHP's, put some murcury in the hollowed points, and sealed them with parafin/candle wax. He also took some JHP's and made a criss cross cut (from the tip toward the back of the bullets) to assist/enhance the mushrooming effect.

    I wrinkled my forehead and said: "Uuuh, are you sure those would be legal?"

    It would seem to me they would bring about much unnecessary legal trouble on top of having to proove "I felt scared for my life..."

    I told him I'd ask here and let him know what all of you think.

    Nik
     
  2. orangeninja

    orangeninja Member

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    Ummmm....sounds like a load, or your friends dad is a wierdo.
     
  3. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    A loaded firearm is, legally, a deadly weapon already. Filling a hollowpoint with mercury doesn't affect that. It does, however, create the risk of needlessly exposing yourself to a nasty little neurotoxin. Tell him to have fun!

    It sounds like dad watched too many movies.
     
  4. zippo8

    zippo8 Member

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    There was a movie where a guy put mercury in a hp and heated it to make fulminate of mercury, then sealed it with wax. Supposedly made it explosive.
     
  5. dev_null

    dev_null Member

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    Tell him not to go to war. Dum-dums are against the Geneva Convention. Oh, wait, forgot we don't care about them anymore. :D
     
  6. mete

    mete Member

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    Modern JHPs work very well, ther's not need to modify them.
     
  7. DonNikmare

    DonNikmare Member

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    Don't you all think that if he was in a self-defense situation and ends up having to kill someone, things would become unecessarally more complicated if an autopsy confirmed the presense of murcury?

    I'm no legal expert but I would think that "You see, he was out to kill. He used murcury loaded JHP's..." wouldn't sound very well if things went to court.


    Nik
     
  8. Glock19Fan

    Glock19Fan Member

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    There is no way in H*** you are going to make mercury fulminate just by heating it up.

    Not only that, but IIRC, mercury dissolves lead. It will also increase the overall bullet weight, which can lead to dangerously high pressures.

    Cutting an X in JHPs that generally dont work in the first place will help some, but most modern JHP bullets already have serrations of some kind on the nose of the bullet. In fact, I cant think of any modern JHPs that dont already have serrations in the jacket.

    Like mentioned above, he watches too many movies. ;)
     
  9. Gifted

    Gifted Member

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    Myth-bust:

    I heard a long time ago that the point behind the murcury is that it doesn't compress, and so when it hits, it explodes, rather than just expanding.
     
  10. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I'd have to wonder how long the wax would actually seal the mercury, especially if it got cold, then warm, then cold, then warm, then...

    I'm certainly no one's idea of an expert on toxic chemicals, but my understanding is that mercury isn't something to fool around with.

    As for cutting a jacket hollow-point round, I'd guess that would actually impair its performance: it's designed to expand at a certain rate, and fooling with that might well make it less rather than more effective.

    Some people like to think they're extra-dangerous.
     
  11. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Mercury, if you could even get it to work in a firearm, would be unstable in flight.

    In reality, good luck getting it to work in a firearm - it doesn't move the same way most metals do, and it would tear the bullet apart in the barrel. :)
     
  12. nordaim

    nordaim Member

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    This find of thing sounds like an urban legend. I have heard stories of things like this for years and years, but have never seen any evidence of someone actually doing it, in person, in photographs, nothing.

    There is also something in the back of my mind that says I have read similar things in a Kurt Saxon article, along with ringing shotgun shells, making your own grapeshot, that kind of stuff.
     
  13. g56

    g56 Member

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    Old wives tales, a long time ago they talked about putting mercury in hollowpoints and sealing it with wax, all that really does is expose you to a toxic and dangerous heavy metal, not a good idea!

    Cutting an X in a bullet was supposed to make them more effective, a waste of time really, and modern bullets are really more effective.
     
  14. DonNikmare

    DonNikmare Member

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    His exact words were: "This stuff could kill you even if it just nicked you on the year. The murcury just needs to get into your bloodstream and ..."

    From other stories he's told me it sure sounds like his Dad used to reload and tinker quite a bit.
     
  15. QuarterBoreGunner

    QuarterBoreGunner Member

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    If I recall properly the 'mercury in the hollow-point' myth comes from the original 'Day of the Jackal' by Fredrick Forsyth... or was it Robert Ludlum?

    Never mind. It's an old urban firearms legend.
     
  16. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    In particular, The Exterminator, starring Robert Ginty and Christopher George.
     
  17. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    I poked around for a bit and found this info about it. It seems that mercury will dissolve lead, so the bullet would likely shatter when fired (assuming you could get it into the chamber without damage).

    Oh, and everybody poke through this little gem. It's all about how 1337 S33L T33MZ used mercury-filled, cyanide-tipped, depleted uranium, scandium-jacketed, fusion bomb bullets to kill Kennedy.
     
  18. GRB

    GRB member

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    As for liquid mercury being placed into hollow points, I see little practical application for it. I know that it would poison someone who was shot with it, and this could result in an attempted murder charge even if you shot someone justifiably. When shooting someone you are usually legally required to stop shoting once the person is no longer a threat to life or of serious bodily injury (of course shooting to stop can result in death but not always). If you had added mercury to your bullets, it would show a predetermined mindset to kill someone instead of just shooting to stop because it would lilely be borne out in court that such would in effect poison the person whom was shot in addition to the harm caused by just gunshot wound. Then again, it would not likely kill you if it just nicked your ear, and may not kill you even if fully discharged into your bloodstream. If detected it would be possible to treat. If undetected, certain levels of mercury could be fatal, if not fatal then it could cause severe organ damage.

    Now if you are talking Mercury Fulminate, aka: Fulminate of Mercury, that is another story. Fulminate of Mercury has been placed into hollow points before with some potentially nasty results. It is quite the bang and, it used to be used as primer material in certain types of explosives or ammunition.

    From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :
    From WordNet (r) 2.0 (August 2003) :
    Note that Fulminate of Mercury is a crystaline substance, it is not liquid, it will not cause lead to liquify, but rather will fit nicely into the end of a bullet or into a primer or into a persussion cap (basically a primer). It is potentially very dangerous stuff, and when used as a primer I believe it is highly corrosive. It is not the thing, in my opinion, with which to fool around.

    All the best,
    GB
     
  19. coylh

    coylh Member

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    That's just long range dentistry.

    "Amalgam filling on #1 at 300 meters. Aim. Fire!"
     
  20. Kamicosmos

    Kamicosmos Member

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    Kinda like the people that supposedly glue a primer into the end of a HP?


    :rolleyes:
     
  21. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Water doesn't compress, either, and is much safer. And guess what! Bad guys are 70% water! And when shot, they're usually conscientious enough to fill up the hollowpoint cavities of your bullets with their 70% water flesh!

    So sticking junk in a hollowpoint is pretty redundant. It might allow a poorly-designed bullet to expand after passing through heavy clothing by preventing the cavity from getting plugged with cloth, but you'd be better off using better designed bullets in the first place.
     
  22. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    Azrael256, tell me the people on that board are in little padded rooms. :uhoh:

    Anyway, here is something I actualy did. I was playing with a round of Wolf HP 7.62x39 and a pin and thought to myself, "Wow, there is alot of space inside this bullet." Instantly I thought, poison bullet. So I desided to fill the front cavity with asprin so a wound would not clot. Well, even with a syringe and an asprin paste I only made 5 of them. When I shot them, 2 went straight and true and the other 3 I have no idea where they ended up. The 2 that impacted the steel plate target where covered in white powder (asprin). I then concluded (cause I couldn't hit crap with them) that the whole thing was a waste of time. :banghead:
     
  23. tyme

    tyme Member

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    Mercury has no place in self defense. If a bullet doesn't stop someone immediately, the mercury won't either.

    I can't think of any use for it in bullets aside from assassination, and this forum is probably not intended for discussion of workable assassination methods. :)

    I wonder about the effect on ballistics, though. The mercury wouldn't be spinning much as the bullet leaves the barrel, though the rest of the bullet would be spinning much more rapidly. Gradually the rest of the bullet would impart spin to the mercury, slowing the outer shell's rotation. Then again after the bullet hits the target, the outside of the bullet would slow more rapidly, then more slowly than usual. There must be studies of liquid-filled bullet ballistics out there somewhere, but the effects would be different due to mercury's extremely high density. (and of course every liquid will have different viscosity)
    Hg: 13.546g/cc @ 300K (liquid)
    Pb: 11.35g/cc @ 300K (solid)
    (the best periodic table in existence)
     
  24. medmo

    medmo Member

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    Was his dad Italian or Italian American?
     
  25. Gabby Hayes

    Gabby Hayes Member

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    Makes me wonder how long dad was playing around with mercury before he started reloading. Given the long-term mood and mental changes that can result from chronic mercury poisoning, I don't think I'd want him reloading any of my ammo. :scrutiny: Besides, the boys over at the IWBA won't want you messing up their tests by splattering mercury all over their nice clean denim. :neener:
     
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