Must be my day to be a PITA...

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by 71GTO, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. 71GTO

    71GTO Member

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    I posted earlier regarding bumping the shoulder on .223 brass and got some great responses, but I figured my new question was different enough that I didn't want to hijack my own post. It never fails to amaze me at the talent and professionalism on this forum!
    I have put about 200- rounds of my reloaded Lapua brass through my new Axis II in 223 and have found that 98% of the fired brass has retained the same neck tension as it started with before shooting them. I honestly feel like I could just decap, clean and load them back up to shoot them without doing any other prep including shoulder bump or neck sizing. I am too new to reloading for a bolt gun to even know if this is a viable approach??? Has anyone else ever ran across this with a rifle before? Does it mean that the chamber in the Axis is that good. I'm talking 195 out of 200 that came out the chamber this way. BTW the case headspace on the new Lapua brass started off at 1.449" and came out at 1.452" as measured with a Hornady comparator. Thanks in advance for the help and I hope everyone is staying safe. Tom
     
  2. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    If you have no change in neck tension your chamber is to small. You should get about 3 firings ish before shoulder bump is needed.
     
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  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Reloads- Low pressure does not expand necks on firing. More so with slow burn rate powders & lignt for caliber bullets.

    But if a tight neck chamber issue , the fired neck will not open. Not a common issue.

    Test- fire some factory ammo. But measure the loaded rounds outside neck diameter, before and after firing. The fired OD should be larger by .002"

    ADDED- *A loaded rounds NECK OD should not be larger in diameter then .253" to correctly fit a factory chamber.*
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  4. Blackrock

    Blackrock Member

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    Now for the rest of your reloading try neck sizing. I recommend the RCBS neck die, second choice the Lee collet neck die. Work around with this technique and maybe drop the big money into a Forster or Redding bushing die.
    I've tried them all and settled on the RCBS neck die. I'll use a RCBS body die every second loading.
     
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  5. Dale Alan

    Dale Alan Member

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    When you say same neck tension ,how are you measuring that ?
     
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  6. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    If I were you, I would try decapping, cleaning and reloading if the neck tension is the same. I wouldn't worry about the chamber being too tight, etc. If the accuracy of the load is satisfactory with no excess pressure signs I wouldn't worry about the load being too light either.
     
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  7. NMexJim

    NMexJim Member

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    IMHO, I’d be careful with that assumption regarding neck size. Hopefully, you have some way to measure. Some don’t like using calipers for such work, but I have a set of Starrett calipers that have fine tips and work pretty well for that job. Stay up at the upper part of the mouth.

    You should also mic the ball expander on your F/L die which will also give you an idea of neck ID. I would imagine it will be around .223. Brass should spring back a bit, so you’re neck ID might be .222 after F/L. Mic your bullet diameter which should be .224 unless they are lead or maybe plated. You should have .002 interference fit aka neck tension. Whatever your actual measurements, you’ll want to keep that consistent for best accuracy.

    Blackrock above makes a point about just neck sizing using a neck sizer die. Beware that brass hardens after a number of firings, and you may see some extraction issues crop up eventually. Then, you’ll need to F/L resize again. How many firings depends on the caliber and the heat. And, you can just neck size by backing out your die a bit further than you did to get the shoulder bump.
     
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  8. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Brass springs back after firing; but don't rely on that to be uniform.
     
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  9. webrx
    • Contributing Member

    webrx Contributing Member

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    Put a bullet in the case with no primer or powder. Push the tip against a piece of wood. How hard to you have to push it before it pushes in? Try the same test with one that has been resized - any difference? Assuming you are going to taper crimp it might be ok, but I would at least neck size it as it takes seconds to do so, why take a chance on having an issue?
     
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  10. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    5.56 Minimum pullet pull is 35 pounds. Military & Federal standard. This is equal to about .002" neck tension.

    Measure the OD of neck before & after bullet seating. After seating, neck diameter should have increased by .002" minimum. Autos may need more NT.
     
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  11. 71GTO

    71GTO Member

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    With a set of pin gauges as verified by a set of Starrett calipers . The new Lapua brass measures .222 on the ID of the neck and they also measure .222 after firing. I also ran a few through the Lee Collet necksizing die and they came out as .222 also. I have a undersized Lee mandrel that will pull it down an additional .001, but I don't think that will help the accuracy with this rifle as it shoots consistent 3/8 -1/2" 100 yard 5-shot groups. I mainly asked my question to see if anyone else has seen this in their own rifle.
     
  12. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    Do yourself a favor and don't fall for the neck size only line of thinking.
    Find what your chamber needs and resize to that.
    I don't do the screw the die down all the way either.
    Also don't skip steps. It's a bad idea.
     
  13. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    I mainly asked my question to see if anyone else has seen this in their own rifle.

    I'm running 24.4 grains of varget behind an 80 grain bullet in a savage in lapua brass and am not seeing that.
     
  14. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    With my Lapua .308 cases I would lose some neck tension on the third or fourth reloading unless I went down .001 in bushing size due to brass work hardening and spring back. Annealing after two firings fixed that. Some people anneal every time.

    It wasn't a large difference, and if you're not picky, or not paying attention, you might not even notice. I never anneal .223 cases and neck tension remains "good enough" for most applications.Plinking loads for sure didn't matter.

    With my Lapua .308 loads I was using fairly light neck tension, so a small difference mattered.
     
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  15. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Some of the custom die manufacturers want you to do just this and send them cases that have been fired at least three times and they use the well formed case to make a size die for the rifle. Often tight neck chambers with turned neck brass though. Most are loose enough you will loose neck tension upon firing, with any normal load.

    Posted the video in your other thread but use your rifle as the go/no go gauge to set your die and you won’t have to worry about bumping things that don’t need to be bumped.
     
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