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My complaint against milsurp rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 50caliber123, Jul 27, 2009.

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  1. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    I have owned 2 Mausers (1 German made during WWII, 1 Yugo M48a), 2 Enfields (1 No5mk1 jungle carbine, 1 ishy jungle carbine in .308), 2 AK's (1 Saiga 7.62x39 unconverted, 1 MAK-90), 2 SKS's (1 Yugo M59/66, 1 Russian Tula), 1 Mosin 1938, and 1 Swiss K31. Of all these rifles mentioned, I kept the yugo M59/66 sks (upgraded to tech-sights) and the Ishy Enfield in .308, I sold the rest. I swear, I will never buy another surplus gun again! These rifles were expensive to service, the ammo can be hard to find, the sights are terrible. I am only 23, but have had 25 or so rifles, pistols, and shotguns pass through hands and have held on to 6 total. I know I prbably sound crazy, but if I could do it over, I would have gone for quality instead of quantity. I would have bought commercial new or used instead. Anyone else have similar experiences or did I happen to find a bunch of lemons from around the world that couldn't shoot for crap?
     
  2. BunnyPuncher

    BunnyPuncher Member

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    Milsurp ain't primarily about performance. I would have thought that was common sense. Most of these guns are 60+ years old, many pumped out during a war time panic. Some are accurate, most are inaccurate by "paper punching" standards, all can hit a man and kill em dead at range.

    It is about the history. If you don't care for/about the history, you are indeed best served buying a commercial rifle.

    I'm surprised you're not mad they don't come with a warranty.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  3. Mikee Loxxer

    Mikee Loxxer Member

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    You sold a K31 and kept one of those crappy Ishapore Enfields?
     
  4. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    That is good news, you can leave them alone, so people like myself who appreciate a good milsurp, can own them.


    NCsmitty
     
  5. Bula

    Bula Member

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    What they lack in finesse, they make up for in weight and cosmoline. They are what they are, old battle rifles.
     
  6. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    the ishy could outshoot the k31 all day long. Comparing ammo would be GP-11 vs indian surplus circa 1978. The guy I sold the K31 to planned to tweak it and drop serious money into it. I have to think that some other people must have had similar experiences.
     
  7. Publius1688

    Publius1688 Member

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    It's all about the history, and we milsurp guys like "getting in" our guns. But seriously, you didn't like the K31? Those things are tack drivers!
     
  8. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    I have one requirement for a rifle besides reliability: 4" groups at 50 yards from a rest. If the rifle can't do that, I don't keep it. I can shoot a bead-sighted shotgun with slugs, offhand and get groups that good. That K31 could barely pull a 6" group at 50 yards. I bought it, buying into the hype that the swiss surplus guns are tack-drivers. Perhaps like everything else, there are lemons, and I got one. But I won't buy another one to see, I'm too poor a college student to do that at this time.
     
  9. COMPNOR

    COMPNOR Member

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    What exactly were you expecting out of these Rifles? And what do you mean hard to service? Or ammo hard to find? I've got no problem finding 7.62x54R or 7.5x55 Swiss. And seeing as how I shoot a clip/mag at a time and call it good, I'm not likely to run out anytime soon.

    Oh and those AK's you listed, I doubt are Milsurps.
     
  10. BunnyPuncher

    BunnyPuncher Member

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    If you couldn't get a K31 with GP11 ammo to group under 4" at 50 yards then you must have bought the worlds worst K31 rifle. GP11 is good ammo.

    Go buy yourself a Remington 700 or AR 15 and leave the milsurps alone. I too hope you never buy another milsurp.
     
  11. greenlion

    greenlion Member

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    Sounds like you need to stick with modern Remchesterbys off the gun store shelf. I find nothing more entertaining than taking apart an old WW2 bolt action to see how the builders dealt with certain design issues. I have one that there is no way in hell I would put a round through its in such poor condition, but I like it. Its history man! There was a series of History Channel (I think) shows a while back, each one spotlighting a weapon, or weapons, from the different countries during WW2. I found this fascinating to watch. Then you could walk into a gun show and see the very rifles shown in the history show sitting on the tables for 40-100 dollars, some in great condition. Who could pass them up? Tell me you can watch Enemy at the Gates without wanting a Mosin Nagant for $89. You can see the whole philosophy of each nation wound up in the designs of those old rifles...if you look hard enough. :)
     
  12. JHK94

    JHK94 Member

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    The best groups I've ever shot with iron sights are with my pre-1898 receivered Finnish M39. The sights are great, the accuracy is great...and the price was great. And don't get me started on how much I love the history.
     
  13. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    If you can't appreciate their historic significance, don't buy milsurps.

    (edit)

    +11 on greenlion's comments
     
  14. KenWP

    KenWP member

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    Most I ever paid for a Mil surplus gun was $45 and its a P17 and shoots better then some new guns. If I wanted a gun that shot like new I would buy a new gun. It's hard to find a new gun that's all beat to hell out of the box that you don't mind throwing behind the seat of the truck for the occasional shot at shomething.
     
  15. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Like the op I've been trending toward quality vs quantity. I've sold off dozens of milsurps and replaced them with a few carefully selected firearms.

    BTW. I've owned several k31 rifles and in my opinion they do not live up to the accuracy mythology you fanboys laud apoun them and to date the only plate match where they were entered into competition they were beaten quite soundly by a No4 mkI
     
  16. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Expensive to service? What exactly required service? :confused:
     
  17. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    I just wish I'd had the good sense to keep all of those M98s (including Latin contracts), 1911 Swiss S.R., 1914 SMLE Enfields, Gew 88s ,Arisakas and the like that I bought at flea markets in the early '70s for $35-$45. The $75 Egyptian Hakims and U.S.G.I. M1 carbines. I just didn't appreciate them then. Live and learn.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  18. tkopp

    tkopp Member

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    They weren't built to be tack drivers. They were built to be used by people with minimal training performing minimal service under rough conditions. Many were cranked out as cheaply as possible, by companies who'd never made firearms before.

    If you want a light, well-made, accurate hunting rifle, then buy one. I'm rather tempted to pick up a dripping-with-cosmoline mosin and a crate of ammo and stash it at Mom's place out in the country. If anything ever goes really wrong in the city I'd be headed there anyway, and $300 for a reliable bolt rifle and 880 rounds of ammo is a hard deal to beat. It won't make a 300 yard shot, but it doesn't have to. And when it never sees use it will still be perfect in twenty years if I ever want to get rid of it.
     
  19. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    I'm about to do the same.
     
  20. krs

    krs Member

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    +1
    You and me both
     
  21. GarandOwner

    GarandOwner Member

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    I have no prob holding MOA with both my 1903A3 and mosin nagant....... My garands are close and my M1 carbine will.....well it stays on paper and what it lacks in accuracy it makes up for in Fun! Judging from quantity and time frame you had the rifles it sounds like you were just impatient. Even modern guns won't shoot good if the SHOOTER is a lemon. :neener: ........so my guess is user error :D
     
  22. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    With a few exceptions, me, too. And those exceptions aren't milsurps.

    My milsurps have been a waste of my limited resources.
     
  23. stchman

    stchman Member

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    I just bought (2) Mosin Nagant rifles. A 1926 M91/30 and an M44 carbine.

    The M44 shoots pretty good. The 91/30 has the sticky bolt syndrome. Apparently there are burrs on the edge of the chamber that need to be filed down.

    All in all they were cheap, ammo is cheap, and fun to own.
     
  24. HB

    HB Member

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    That's exactly why I'm not a huge fan of them. I understand the interest in the history of them, but as practical firearms, I don't see much potential. I do own an SKS but it seems to be more accurate than the mosins on average.

    My experience with most mil-surps is that:
    1. They have poor worksmanship
    2. For the money, they are inaccurate
    3. Sights are poor
    4. Triggers are less than perfect
    5. Ammo is becoming an issue
    6. They are clunky

    I will certainly never understand people who buy mil-surps expecting them to be amazing tack drivers. They are one of the worst choices for a first rifle as well.

    That being said, everybody's got their thing. I like lever actions and .22's.
     
  25. Storm

    Storm Member

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    Aw heck, that's some of the best part about milsurps!

    BTW, don't sell the Ishapore Enfields short. They can be excellent rifles.
     
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