My first W244 loads

[vaalpens]

A few weeks ago I decide to try a new powder and decided on W244. The reason why I decided on W244 was that it was supposed to work well in 38spl, 9mm and 45acp standard loads. This is normally where I load. What intrigued me also was that it had some load data for 357sig. It is a bit fast for 357sig, but I am always looking for a nice practice load for 357sig, as a possible replacement for my Unique load.

Today I finally tested my W244 loads in 9mm, 45acp and 357sig.

The 357sig results actually surprised me. It was very consistent and showed some good accuracy. The velocities were between 1200fps and 1300fps, which is a good range for practice loads which are a little easire on the gun. The ES/SD numbers were very good, so I think W244 is actually a good powder for 357sig, as long as you are not looking for very high velocities.

Following are the 357sig test results. Testing was done from 15 yards using a rest:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.1gr, CCI500
Average: 1202
ES: 19
SD: 7.1
Force: 398
PF: 149
Velocities: 1195, 1200, 1200, 1214, 1202
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.22"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.2gr, CCI500
Average: 1222
ES: 18
SD: 8
Force: 411
PF: 151
Velocities: 1217, 1218, 1228, 1216, 1234
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.82"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.3gr, CCI500
Average: 1238
ES: 10
SD: 4.1
Force: 422
PF: 153
Velocities: 1242, 1232, 1236, 1240, 1241
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.86"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.4gr, CCI500
Average: 1253
ES: 21
SD: 8.5
Force: 432
PF: 155
Velocities: 1259, 1251, 1257, 1240, 1261
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.63"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.5gr, CCI500
Average: 1263
ES: 15
SD: 5.8
Force: 439
PF: 156
Velocities: 1257, 1272, 1260, 1266, 1263
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.95"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.6gr, CCI500
Average: 1271
ES: 18
SD: 7.1
Force: 445
PF: 157
Velocities: 1273, 1277, 1274, 1259, 1274
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.18"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.7gr, CCI500
Average: 1292
ES: 6
SD: 2.9
Force: 460
PF: 160
Velocities: 1295, 1294, 1289, 1290, 1295
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.72"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 6.8gr, CCI500
Average: 1304
ES: 13
SD: 4.7
Force: 468
PF: 161
Velocities: 1312, 1305, 1303, 1304, 1299
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.13"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

 

[JimKirk]

Looking good to me!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks for sharing your results. It sure looks like there is no problem with accuracy, W244 seems to work very well in the .357 Sig.

You said you feel it's a bit fast for that cartridge and it just might be, I'm not sure and don't shoot the .357 Sig. You might take a look at the other new Winchester powder, W572. You can use W572 in the .38 Special and 45 Auto too.

 

[JimKirk]

572 should be ok in the SIG .... Hodgdon lists 6.0 grains ... 4" barrel ... 1219 fps
6.7 grains 1331 fps Same barrel ....38,700 psi

 

[vaalpens]

Looking good to me!

Thanks! Not as manly as your 800X load, but not bad either.

 

[vaalpens]

Thanks for sharing your results. It sure looks like there is no problem with accuracy, W244 seems to work very well in the .357 Sig.

You said you feel it's a bit fast for that cartridge and it just might be, I'm not sure and don't shoot the .357 Sig. You might take a look at the other new Winchester powder, W572. You can use W572 in the .38 Special and 45 Auto too.

Thanks for the comments. I was looking at W572, but decided to go with W244 since I have other powders on the slow side I use. I was looking for something faster around Unique burn rate, as a possible replacement for my Unique load. lately in the cold weather (50's - cold for Phoenix), my Unique load's ejection pattern was weak, so I was looking for a replacement at the lower velocities for 357sig. What I have seen so far it seem that W244 will do the trick for me.

 

[vaalpens]

572 should be ok in the SIG .... Hodgdon lists 6.0 grains ... 4" barrel ... 1219 fps
6.7 grains 1331 fps Same barrel ....38,700 psi

Thanks Jim. I am ok with that velocity range for practice ammo. I just need to do some more accuracy testing, maybe at 25 yards to determine if it will replace my Unique practice round, but far I think I have a replacement.

357sig Always impresses me with how accurate it is and how easy it is to find an accurate load.

 

[vaalpens]

I also tested some 45acp RMR 230gr FMJ loads with W244. Based on my rest results, it seems that W244 acts as a faster powder than HP38, but slower than Sport Pistol. Accuracy wise it looks like HP38 gives me better accuracy, but there is not much difference. For those trying to make major, it seems that W244 especially for my 4.4" barrel, hits the PF sweet spot at the most accurate loads. I still have to shoot it side be side with some other loads to compare feel, but it sure seems W244 will work well in 45acp with a 230gr bullet.

Following are the test results tested at 15 yards using a rest:

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.1gr, CCI300
Average: 731
ES: 49
SD: 18
Force: 273
PF: 168
Velocities: 730, 706, 725, 755, 739
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.19"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.2gr, CCI300
Average: 746
ES: 31
SD: 12.3
Force: 284
PF: 171
Velocities: 732, 737, 752, 763, 746
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.89"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.3gr, CCI300
Average: 754
ES: 35
SD: 13.6
Force: 290
PF: 173
Velocities: 742, 777, 746, 755, 754
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.89"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.4gr, CCI300
Average: 777
ES: 17
SD: 7.6
Force: 308
PF: 178
Velocities: 771, 777, 769, 784, 786
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.31"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.5gr, CCI300
Average: 795
ES: 28
SD: 10.5
Force: 323
PF: 182
Velocities: 790, 795, 781, 809, 800
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.23"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.250"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, W244, 5.6gr, CCI300
Average: 802
ES: 29
SD: 12
Force: 328
PF: 184
Velocities: 781, 805, 805, 810, 809
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.78"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

 

[vaalpens]

I also had a few Berry's 200gr RS bullets left over and loaded some of them also with W244. Normally the 200gr bullets seemed to be more accurate in my P220, and I think these followed the trend. It seems that W244 won't easily give you major with the 4.4" barrel based on my results. Based on the accuracy I saw, I think I should get better accuracy, and that maybe some of the flyers were due to me. Overall I think the W244 performed well with the 200gr plated bullet.

Following are the test results from 15 yards using a rest:

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.2gr, CCI300
Average: 707
ES: 92
SD: 38.7
Force: 222
PF: 141
Velocities: 652, 687, 714, 741, 744
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.14"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.3gr, CCI300
Average: 737
ES: 41
SD: 15.1
Force: 241
PF: 147
Velocities: 714, 733, 755, 741, 742
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.03"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.4gr, CCI300
Average: 745
ES: 81
SD: 30.3
Force: 246
PF: 149
Velocities: 698, 740, 760, 779, 752
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.77"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.5gr, CCI300
Average: 769
ES: 47
SD: 20.5
Force: 263
PF: 153
Velocities: 749, 796, 775, 780, 749
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.42"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.6gr, CCI300
Average: 790
ES: 75
SD: 28.5
Force: 277
PF: 158
Velocities: 745, 789, 808, 790, 820
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.96"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.7gr, CCI300
Average: 808
ES: 20
SD: 7.4
Force: 290
PF: 161
Velocities: 806, 800, 820, 805, 809
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.22"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.8gr, CCI300
Average: 819
ES: 36
SD: 14.8
Force: 298
PF: 163
Velocities: 794, 830, 819, 826, 828
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.54"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, W244, 5.9gr, CCI300
Average: 819
ES: 60
SD: 24.9
Force: 298
PF: 163
Velocities: 802, 862, 819, 810, 803
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.5"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

 

[vaalpens]

This is the last of the W244 loads I have tested. I will probably load and test some 40s&w and 38spl loads also, but it will have to wait for another day.

As with other loads, my 9mm loads are never as accurate as 357sig. I am beginning to suspect that it could be my gun, but I have seen some very accurate loads, but it is just not as easy as 357sig to produce a very accurate load. I used the RMR 124gr TC FP MW bullet, so the bullet is not the issue. I used the same bullet for 357sig.

Based on the results, it seems that W244 performed slightly better for me compared to HP-38 and Sport Pistol. Power Pistol still outperforms it for accuracy. One thing nice though about W244 and ny 3.9" barrel gun, the most accurate loads were at that just over 130 PF range if you need to make minor. I will have to test it alongside Power Pistol, but it could be that the recoil should be milder than PP at the same range. The SD/ES chrono numbers also looks good.

Following are the test results from 15yards using a rest. The scope I used was not zeroed, which accounts for the high POI.

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 989
ES: 23
SD: 10.5
Force: 269
PF: 122
Velocities: 978, 978, 996, 1001, 992
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.21"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4.1gr, CCI500
Average: 1009
ES: 15
SD: 5.9
Force: 280
PF: 125
Velocities: 1016, 1006, 1013, 1001, 1011
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.74"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4.2gr, CCI500
Average: 1035
ES: 16
SD: 6.9
Force: 295
PF: 128
Velocities: 1032, 1033, 1048, 1033, 1032
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.33"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4.3gr, CCI500
Average: 1054
ES: 19
SD: 6.9
Force: 306
PF: 130
Velocities: 1053, 1063, 1054, 1057, 1044
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.07"
Test Date: 02/10/2019


9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4.4gr, CCI500
Average: 1065
ES: 9
SD: 3.5
Force: 312
PF: 132
Velocities: 1067, 1071, 1064, 1064, 1062
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.07"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: HRTRS
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, W244, 4.5gr, CCI500
Average: 1097
ES: 22
SD: 8
Force: 331
PF: 136
Velocities: 1087, 1100, 1096, 1109, 1095
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.42"
Test Date: 02/10/2019

 

[Dudedog]

Looks like your .357 Sig like those RMR Match Winners!

 

[vaalpens]

Looks like your .357 Sig like those RMR Match Winners!

The RMR match winner is a quality bullet with a consistent diameter, which results in a consistent neck tension. I wish I can get the match winner bullet to be consistently accurate in 9mm also. Not sure if it is me, the loads or the gun, but i can't be the bullet.

 

[300Whspr]

What is the "Force" number in your results? I know I have seen that before, but I can't remember what it is.

 

[vaalpens]

What is the "Force" number in your results? I know I have seen that before, but I can't remember what it is.

I should probably change the heading to ft/lbs Energy or something like that. The force value is just the calculation of the ft/lbs energy using the average velocity and bullet weight.

 

[300Whspr]

I should probably change the heading to ft/lbs Energy or something like that. The force value is just the calculation of the ft/lbs energy using the average velocity and bullet weight.

That's what I was suspecting... but I was too lazy to get out a reloading manual to get the energy formula... or type it into google for that matter and see if the numbers matched...LOL

Thanks!!!

 

[vaalpens]

That's what I was suspecting... but I was too lazy to get out a reloading manual to get the energy formula... or type it into google for that matter and see if the numbers matched...LOL

Thanks!!!

Not a problem. The energy value is similar to the power factor value. They are not really necessary to include in the test data, but since they are calculated, why not. The test data listed above is formatted in Excel, so no big deal to include them. I think if I had to type it in by hand every time, then probably I would have left them off the report, a while ago.