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My fisrt AR and I bought H335

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by grubbylabs, Nov 18, 2012.

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  1. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    Any one else use this and how did it go? Does this powder do better at the upper end or lower end?

    I have a M&P sport with a 1/8 twist.

    I bought 1lb or H335

    200 Hornady 55grn soft points.

    And so far only about 80 pieces of once fired brass from new ammo I bought.

    Also I have heard that a small base die is in order for such a rifle and I plan on purchasing the RCBS X dies. Any input here?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Most folks don't use small base dies, but they give you a little advantage with tough to size cases. My sizer is standard and I never have problems.

    H-335 works great in .223 and AR's. Plenty of folks use it.
     
  3. Schutzen

    Schutzen Member

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    .223/h335

    Try 24.5 grains, It shoots well for me.
     
  4. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Agreed, H335 is a great powder for the .223. I use a charge of 25.0gr H335 under a 55gr bullet which is close but not at the top end of the charge range. H335 meters well and burns fairly completely.

    H335 is the canister version of the none canister WC844 which is the military powder used for 5.56mm ammo.
     
  5. gunner69

    gunner69 Member

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    H335 has worked well for me too......:D
     
  6. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    Ok so I may have chosen well for powder and it likes the upper end of the charge.

    But what about the small base dies. A year ago or so I read a thread where every one basically said for the AR plat form you need to use small base dies. If they are not needed then what is their purpose? Thanks.
     
  7. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    I just noticed that my Hornady book has a max charge of 23.2 grains. For those of you above, where are you getting your data?
     
  8. Doug b

    Doug b Member

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    My Bushmaster really likes 24.5 gr. of H335 and a CCI 450 primer and a 55 gr. Nosler ballistic tip.Scarey accurate.Never found a need for a small base die,tried one once was a major pita.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  9. TwoEyedJack

    TwoEyedJack Member

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    The only time I use a small base die is when I buy once fired brass. Some machine guns have oversized chambers and if your chamber is cut a little tight, a regular die might not size the brass down enough. I have an AR with a DPMS fluted stainless barrel, and it is definitely on the tight side. Once the brass goes through the small base sizer, I go back to a normal full length sizer for subsequent reloading.
     
  10. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Check the Hodgdon Load Data Site and you will see the charge weights are higher than your book. Compare the OAL in both and you might see why the data is different.
     
  11. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    I think they have the same data listed on the bottle, looks like it max's out at 26 grains. Interesting:confused:
     
  12. gunner69

    gunner69 Member

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    Never had a problem where I needed small base dies.......:neener:
     
  13. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Compare the OAL from both and that may shed some light on the different powder loads.
     
  14. hentown

    hentown Member

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    I'm loading with 844, exclusively, for my ARs. I'm using 25gr with 55gr. bullets. I use the RCBS X die, but have never used a small base die. I've loaded thousands of rounds with "standard" dies, and my .223 reloads never fail.
     
  15. rskent

    rskent Member

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    335 for light bullets. Varget for heavy bullets.

    I use 23.6gr 335 under a 52gr match king. Shoots great in every gun I have tried it in.
    223, 5.56,and 223 wylde chambers. YMMV.
     
  16. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    Do you use range brass? I plan on picking up quite a bit as time goes by.
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I am shooting range brass right now. Standard sizer. I size to fit a Wilson case gauge. So far I have not had any that would not size to fit the gauge. Never say never though.

    With range brass you need to, besides the normal outward visual checks, check them internally for signs of pending case head separation. This is easy to do. Even once fired brass can be trash if the gun it was fired in has head space problems, or if it is not once fired and someone sized the brass excessively. (Pushed the shoulder back to far.)

    [​IMG]

    This case would have been OK to fire again, but it is showing the beginning signs of the "rut", or case stretching.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  18. Krogen

    Krogen Member

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    I've been puzzled by loading data published for H335 in 5.56mm. If it is truly the canister version of the MIL spec powder, why does the MIL document show higher charges? I have pulled down XM193 ammo and found the powder charge is indeed per the MIL spec.

    When I load to the max charges published in handloading manuals, my velocity falls ~200 fps lower than the loading book predicts and doesn't reach MIL velocities. It's probably not my chrono, because firing XM193 I get within 20 fps of the MIL spec velocity. Recoil is noticeably more vigorous.

    At first, I figured I had a slower/weaker lot of H335. I no longer believe that's the case. By exceeding the published data by 2-3 grains to match that of the MIL spec charge, I'd probably hit the MIL velocity and also match the predicted velocities in the loading books. I'm not comfortable going over published data by that much! I'm quite puzzled by the discrepancy.

    Is this a clear case of the over-conservatism people suspect of commercial loading books? What am I missing?
     
  19. rsrocket1

    rsrocket1 Member

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    5.56 is spec'ed at 62,366 psi, .223 Rem is SAAMI spec'ed at 55,000 psi.

    You should work up a load yourself and look for the charge that produces the best groups but stays below the max recommended charge. I started at 23 and worked up to 25 and found that my AR liked 25.0g H335 under the 55g fmjbt. I would have been happy if it were at 23, but there was simply a huge tightening of the group at 25.0 so that's what I load to.
     
  20. Henry45

    Henry45 Member

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    This is what I chronographed last weekend w/5.56. Same as you, 55g FMJBT.

    2.20 OAL

    H335 - 24.5 g = 2712 Highest 2787/Lowest 2656
    H335 - 25g = 2769 Highest 2836/Lowest 2711
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    2.215 OAL

    WC 844 - 25g = 2745 Highest 2778/lowest 2720
    WC 844 - 26g = 2822 Highest 2845/Lowest 2793
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also shot some Federal 223 rounds and their total came out to 2845 average.
     
  21. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    I am happy with the best group that requires the least amount of powder. I don't need a ton of speed, I just want to hit what I am aiming at precisely.
     
  22. Direwolf

    Direwolf Member

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    If you'll notice in the Hornady manual, the OAL is 2.200" whereas in the other manuals I own the OAL is longer, like 2.260".
     
  23. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Grubbylabs, I would suggest getting a set of standard dies and try them. Remember everything has a tolerance-- dies and chambers. Unless you have a very tight chamber and very loose dies, you should be able to use standard dies just fine. I've reloaded probably 70,000 rounds of 5.56 over the years and most of it came from machine guns. I know for a fact that about 20,000 rounds of it came from a SAW, because I picked it up on the range myself, and it all sized, chambered and fired in my ARs just fine.

    If you have problems chambering the ammo after loading about 20 rounds, then and only then get a small base die set. There's no point in overworking your brass more than necessary.
     
  24. RustyFN

    RustyFN Member

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    My main powder for 223 is H-335. I load 24.7 grains with a 55 grain bulk Hornady FMJBT and they seem to be fairly accurate. I have never needed a small base die loading for my AR.
     
  25. dalv

    dalv Member

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    DPMS 16" Bull Barrel - most accurate loads are using 335. I am going to use it exclusive as my gun loves it.
     
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