"My hand trembles, but my heart does not."

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by <*(((><, Nov 30, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. <*(((><

    <*(((>< Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,751
    The thread title tells a patriotic duty we all have of having the heart to ensure rights are kept, "My hand trembles, but my heart does not," declares Stephen Hopkin's resolve as he signed for Rhode Island the declaration of Independence.

    There! His Majesty can now read my name without glasses. And he can double the reward on my head! (John Hancock, upon signing the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776)

    That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided, as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. (Recommended Bill of Rights from the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 27, 1778)


    I always love hearing a new quote by people of historical significance, as often their words were born out of actual events and/or experiences. The way that men and women spoke in the times of our nation’s founding has great impact on myself as they were subject to the loss of liberty and freedom in their own lives before the new world. My words today do little to scratch the surface of what those men faced under both types of tyranny soft and harsh. In the spirit of free thought and speech, it is here that we can compile our great nation’s leader’s thoughts on the Second Amendment for use of reflection, teaching and encouragement.

    Please share any quotes you have come across pertaining to our liberties under the Second Amendment and how they are tied hand and hand with our ability to protect our loved ones. I ask that all quotes reference the author and if possible time and place of occurrence.

    One thing I also ask is that if I or anyone else has misquoted, misappropriated or taken out of context any quotes please let us know so we can attempt to have integrity in this thread’s purpose.

    ========================================================

    "Democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is the well-armed lamb contesting the vote." (Benjamin Franklin)

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." (Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778)

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." (George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788)

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." (Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787)

    "To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them." (Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759)

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785)

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    (Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776)

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, 12/20/1787)

    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? It is feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. (Tench Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, February 20, 1788)

    “Don't fire unless fired upon. But if they want a war let it begin here.” (Captain John Parker, commander of the militiamen at Lexington, Massachusetts, on siting British Troops (attributed), April 19, 1775)

    It is important also to consider, that the surest means of avoiding war is to be prepared for it in peace. (Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833)

    No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. (Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775)

    One of the most essential branches of English liberty is the freedom of one's house. A man's house is his castle. (James Otis, On the Writs of Assistance, 1761)

    Wisely, therefore, do they consider union and a good national government as necessary to put and keep them in such a situation as, instead of inviting war, will tend to repress and discourage it. That situation consists in the best possible state of defense, and necessarily depends on the government, the arms, and the resources of the country. (John Jay, Federalist No. 4)

    The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them. (Zacharia Johnson, speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 25, 1778)

    When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, — who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia. (George Mason, speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778)

    Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it. (Federal Farmer, Antifederalist Letter, No.18, January 25, 1778)

    ========================================

    "I shall return." General Douglas MacArthur, March eleventh, nineteen fourty two.
    --Provided by @Demi-human

    "Sad will be the day when the American people forget their traditions and their history, and no longer remember that the country they love, the institutions they cherish, and the freedom they hope to preserve, were born from the throes of armed resistance to tyranny, and nursed in the rugged arms of fearless men." - Roger Sherman
    --Provided by @Demi-human

    George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment
    “I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778
    --Provided by @2bfree

    Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No.2
    --Provided by @ofitg

    "It's a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers. I happen to know this from personal experience."
    Ronald Reagan
    --Provided by @Demi-human

    "The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed — where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once." (Judge Kozinki)
    --Provided by @DT Guy

    “If it is time to bury them, it is time to dig them up and use them.” (Author Unknown)
    --Provided by @J-Bar

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." ( John Adams, address to Massachusetts Militia, October 11, 1798)
    --Provided by @Sistema1927

    "The object of this clause [the right of the people to keep and bear arms] is to secure a well-armed militia.... But a militia would be useless unless the citizens were enabled to exercise themselves in the use of warlike weapons. To preserve this privilege, and to secure to the people the ability to oppose themselves in military force against the usurpations of government, as well as against enemies from without, that government is forbidden by any law or proceeding to invade or destroy the right to keep and bear arms." (John Norton Pomeroy, RIP 1828-1885, American lawyer and legal writer, Source: An Introduction to the Constitutional Law of the United States, at 152 (New York, Hurd & Houghton 3d., rev. & enl. 1875)
    --Provided by @yokel

    "I sincerely wish you may find it convenient to come here. the pleasure of the trip will be less than you expect, but the utility greater. it will make you adore your own country, it’s soil, it’s climate, it’s equality, liberty, laws, people and manners. My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy. I confess I had no idea of it myself. while we shall see multiplied instances of Europeans going to live in America, I will venture to say no man now living will ever see an instance of an American removing to settle in Europe and continuing there." (Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, Paris June 17, 1785)
    --Provided by @<*(((><

    "You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas!" (David Crockett)
    --Provided by @<*(((>< (thanks @vito)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  2. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,393
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI (Aka, Paradise.)
    I have no really great ones at the moment, but I am one hundred percent behind this notion. To often we forget how we have arrived at our position in the timeline. I am going to find a great quote and come back to report it, and spend time teaching my children the history behind it as well.
    "I shall return." General Douglas MacArthur, March eleventh, nineteen fourty two.
    But that is not quite the essence of the kind of quote I think you mean, or is it? It speaks of resolve and determination, but your starting direction seems to speak of the fortitude of humans to strive for goodness and freedom. Which I look forward to. So indeed , 'I'll be back' with a good one.;)
     
    Jim NE and <*(((>< like this.
  3. <*(((><

    <*(((>< Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,751
    @Demi-human That's the key is that we teach our children (I'm 35 hand have three children of my own), I think too often generations fail to do that. I ask myself quite often, "why did the founding fathers go through all the hardship and pain to create this great country?" It definitely gets my appreciation for the past sacrifice going.

    One thing we need to make sure is that most of the quotes pertain somewhat to the "right to keep and bear arms," as I can see this going off topic fast.

    However, in my dealings with people concerning the ownership of firearms often I refer to a quote from a founding father, past president, etc., to help them understand they knew that we needed these liberties if our republic was ever to survive.
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  4. <*(((><

    <*(((>< Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,751
    Moderator: Thank you for moving it, wasn't sure if it fit with activism or general discussion, I was in between both.
     
  5. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    834
    Location:
    Utah
    <*(((><

    I'm reading the book Scalia Speaks currently. I think you would enjoy the book, based on this thread you started. When I mention the book to friends that slant left, they turn up their noses.

    And then I mention that if they simply read the book forward written by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg (their "hero"), that they would then read the entire book. The response has always been silence, so far, because there is simply nothing they can say to counter.

    Pretty entertaining, it has been!
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  6. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,393
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI (Aka, Paradise.)
    "Sad will be the day when the American people forget their traditions and their history, and no longer remember that the country they love, the institutions they cherish, and the freedom they hope to preserve, were born from the throes of armed resistance to tyranny, and nursed in the rugged arms of fearless men." - Roger Sherman

    Senator, Mayor, Drafter of the Declaration of independence, Father of fifteen children and Father of our nation.

    The only person to sign The Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Federation, the Connecticut Compromise and the United States Constitution. Arguably the most important papers drafted toward the Union of States. At sixty six, the oldest member of the Constitutional Convention, Sherman called for a strong Central Government, but also declared a need for states to have their own rights. He was mayor of New haven Connecticut until his death.

    That, which the founder of this nation went though, just to have some want to throw it all away. Completely inexplicable.
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  7. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,663
    Location:
    Virginia
    And yet Scalia, in writing his Heller opinion, disregarded practically every one of the quotations in the OP.
     
  8. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,393
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI (Aka, Paradise.)
    I was hoping this would stay invigorating and inspiring. o_O

    Stir our souls, toward freedom, patriotism. Fuel our comradery, not our derision. Feed our hunger for good will and compassion, strength, dignity and respect. High and lofty goals are not foolish. They are merely harder to attain.
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  9. 2bfree

    2bfree Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Washington
    George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment
    “I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778
     
    everydefense, <*(((>< and Demi-human like this.
  10. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,663
    Location:
    Virginia
    Exactly. Therefore, according to this original interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, the whole people -- you and me -- should be able to own the standard military weapons of the time. (That means fully-automatic M16's, at a minimum.) Yet Justice Scalia -- the vaunted "originalist" -- found a way to limit this to just a handgun in the home, duly licensed and registered. He castigated those arguing for the 1791 meaning of the Amendment as "insurrectionists."

    In terms of current gun jurisprudence, the quotations in the OP are irrelevant and misleading. They sound good, but that's about it. Unfortunately, we can't undo 200+ years of history.
     
  11. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,393
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI (Aka, Paradise.)
    "If you have nothing nice to say...." - everyones mother, at least once.
    "There's always one in a bushel."- my grand mother, September second, nineteen eighty nine.
    "Now, see. Jest cause sumons mouth is running like a faucet don't mean ya gotta play in the puddle, see?"- my grandfather, circa nineteen ninty four.

    I don't believe the point is to undo history, but to remember and teach it. Thus preventing my children from reliving it. One Justice's opinion does NOT make two hundred years of history and social evolution irrelevant!

    Sorry Papa, my shoes are wet...
     
    TomJ and <*(((>< like this.
  12. milemaker13

    milemaker13 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,348
    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    This says it so well. Thank you for posting this. America really is the greatest country on Earth. Period.
     
    Demi-human and <*(((>< like this.
  13. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    834
    Location:
    Utah
    How so? If you have some facts to discuss how Scalia disregarded paratically every one of the OP quotes, please start a new thread and let's start discussing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
    Demi-human likes this.
  14. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    10,512
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    That's Tench Coxe, in case you'd like the full attribution
     
    Demi-human, 2bfree and <*(((>< like this.
  15. <*(((><

    <*(((>< Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,751
    Thank you, I edited the quote.
     
  16. ofitg

    ofitg Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Messages:
    444
    As you go further back in time, you get closer to the original substance of the 2nd Amendment. In a 1934 Congressional hearing, the U.S. Attorney General stated that requiring citizens to register their machineguns would be unconstitutional -

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4xHVurgr6T4YTJjMTkzNjQtMDUyMy00NTQyLTk1N2ItMWRmMzI2MThjM2U3/edit?hl=en&pli=1

    HuT7fLZ.png


    Now here we are, in 2017. After 83 years of "social engineering", there is not much left of the 2nd Amendment except a crumbling, hollowed-out shell.


     
  17. ofitg

    ofitg Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Messages:
    444
    Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No.2
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  18. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,663
    Location:
    Virginia
    That is why the NFA was structured in the guise of a tax.

    The "universal militia" argument was still alive and well as of Miller v. U.S. (1939). The Heller case destroyed it completely, since Scalia basically ruled that the "prefatory clause" (the militia clause) of the 2nd Amendment was a nullity.

    Without the militia clause, all we have is a very limited right to own a handgun for self-defense (in the home, under conditions of licensing and registration, etc.). This is the exact opposite of the original rationale for the 2nd Amendment, and makes all the quotations in the OP of this thread moot.

    The irony of this is that the Heller case was lauded at the time (2008) as a great victory for gun rights. As we gain more perspective, it turns out not to have been so.

    I would be a lot more comfortable if the last pronouncement of the Supreme Court had remained Miller, and not Heller.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
    ofitg likes this.
  19. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,393
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI (Aka, Paradise.)
    You may not be wrong, but are there no other parades? RE-read the original post. Quotes please.
    Are you striving for emulation?

    "It's a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers. I happen to know this from personal experience."
    Ronald Reagan
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  20. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,638
    My all-time favorite 'gun quote', since it's logical, persuasive, and from an opinion by a (then) sitting federal judge, Judge Kozinski:

    " The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed — where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once."

    Larry
     
    Demi-human and <*(((>< like this.
  21. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,766
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Sorry I don’t know who said it first, but I see it in some signature lines of posters. Referring to the urge to hide guns from those who would confiscate them:

    “If it is time to bury them, it is time to dig them up and use them.” Or words to that effect.
     
    <*(((><, Demi-human and milemaker13 like this.
  22. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    4,710
    Location:
    Cape Cod
    If we’re posting our favorite apocrypha, I vote for the Hancock and Franklin bits and will add my own:

    “As to a brace of pistols concealed about the gentlemen’s person, I recommend the Glock 43 over the Shield, given upgraded sights.”

    -Winston Churchill
     
    SteadyD likes this.
  23. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,192
    Location:
    "Land of (dis)Enchantment"
    This is a quote that scares me to death in light of our continuing descent into a moral abyss:

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." ( John Adams, address to Massachusetts Militia, October 11, 1798)
     
  24. yokel

    yokel Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,235
    "The object of this clause [the right of the people to keep and bear arms] is to secure a well-armed militia.... But a militia would be useless unless the citizens were enabled to exercise themselves in the use of warlike weapons. To preserve this privilege, and to secure to the people the ability to oppose themselves in military force against the usurpations of government, as well as against enemies from without, that government is forbidden by any law or proceeding to invade or destroy the right to keep and bear arms."

    by: John Norton Pomeroy

    (1828-1885) American lawyer, legal writer

    Source: An Introduction to the Constitutional Law of the United States 239, at 152 (New York, Hurd & Houghton 3d ed., rev. & enl. 1875).
     
    <*(((>< and Demi-human like this.
  25. <*(((><

    <*(((>< Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,751
    Thank you for all the additional quotes. I've updated my original post to include the quotes along with whom it was provided by.

    I hope that we can keep this thread on topic, and while I appreciate people's passions about where our country has gone wrong recently with Supreme Court cases and other regulatory misappropriations, I think those are better served in their own thread. It was my goal in starting this thread to stir passions in myself and others about this great country and the men and women that fought physically, emotionally and spiritually in our countries beginnings and since, so much is to offer from their words.

    "I sincerely wish you may find it convenient to come here. the pleasure of the trip will be less than you expect, but the utility greater. it will make you adore your own country, it’s soil, it’s climate, it’s equality, liberty, laws, people and manners. My God! how little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy. I confess I had no idea of it myself. while we shall see multiplied instances of Europeans going to live in America, I will venture to say no man now living will ever see an instance of an American removing to settle in Europe and continuing there." (Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, Paris June 17, 1785)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
    J-Bar, TomJ and Demi-human like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice