Quantcast
  1. Upgrade efforts paused for now. Thanks for your patience. More details in the thread in Tech Support for those who are interested.
    Dismiss Notice

My new 1911 project

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by Whiskeyhotel2020, Nov 1, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I finally was able to get an original 1911 (sort of). It probably is in the top three favorites amongst my collection. It's a United States Property marked frame with a remington rand top. I know I need to find the right grips and slide. I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction to restore this pistol to its original version?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,188
    Location:
    New York
    It looks nice just the way it is. I agree on finding the right grips for it but why change the slide?
    The current slide seems to match the frame insofar as finish wear and looks very good.
    Would you refinish the entire gun if a new slide didn't match the frame finish?
    That will be a great project whichever way you go with it.
     
  3. Alex Clayton

    Alex Clayton Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2020
    Messages:
    719
    Frame and slide look to be not correct for each other but, may well have been done at one of the armories along the life of the pistol. To find just an A1 frame that was Mil Surp would be most likely expensive. If that is a 1911 pre A1 frame, can't see it well enough to know for sure, then of course someone trying to put a pre A1 together would of course love to have it. Problem of course is so few of them are still around and for sale. As it is looks damn nice.
     
  4. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    That is a good question about the finish. I'm pretty sure it was refinished by the military. I know that if I find a WWI slide in good shape the frame is parkerized and off the top of my head colt blued the original issue so if I am going to restore it fully I would have to refinish it. I was toying with the idea of talking to Turnbull about restoring it.

    On second thought it has character and the WWII top end gives it that I've seen some stuff and if I could talk... Maybe I'll just narrow my search to replace the grips.
     
  5. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    10,145
    Location:
    Nostramo (in absentia), Segmentum Ultima
    It could well be a Remington-UMC frame, the inspectors stamp is the easiest way to tell.

    I would leave it as is. Even if you managed to find a correct WW1-era slide to match the frame (Colt or Remington), and had it professionally reblued, the $ value wouldnt change much.

    As it sits, it is period correct for an arsenal-reworked 1911 which could have served in Korea, Vietnam, or the Cold War as issued.

    Nice gun!
     
  6. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    It is a pre A1 frame. Topped by a Remington Rand slide. I have always wanted a Pre A1 1911 from around 1911. I look up the serial number and it dates to 1918. It is the most money I've ever spent on a firearm.
     
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  7. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    10,145
    Location:
    Nostramo (in absentia), Segmentum Ultima
    Nearly all military 1911s got reconditioned at an Army arsenal at least once over their service lives. They would mix and match parts as needed, refinish (parkerize), and replace wood grips with those brown plastic panels to bring the older guns closer to 1911A1 standard. Those are the correct issue grips, save them if you swap them out!

    That gun is exactly as it would have left the arsenal. In fact, there may be arsenal stamps to tell you which one did the rework.
     
    entropy and Sovblocgunfan like this.
  8. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    10,145
    Location:
    Nostramo (in absentia), Segmentum Ultima
    Colt and Remington UMC serial numbers overlapped by 1918. Only the inspectors stamp on the left side behind the trigger will tell you who made the frame for sure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  9. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I appreciate the information. By correct issue you are referring to as it was issued from the armory? I thought the first 1911s had double diamond wood grips?
     
  10. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I will have to take some more photos when I can get to mom's (been using one of dad's safes to store my family guns and my prized ones. I bought it knowing that the top and bottom don't match. The important part for me is the fact the frame is a pre a1 and the history.
     
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  11. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    10,145
    Location:
    Nostramo (in absentia), Segmentum Ultima
    A WW1 production 1911 nearly always had wood grips from the factory, though not all had diamonds-there were variations. That frame would have served in WW1, then returned to an Army arsenal for storage. When WW2 began, they took all the stored guns apart, threw the frames in one pile, and the slides and barrels in another. They tossed all the wood grips in the trash, replaced any rusted out or excessively worn parts with either new production or used parts that passed inspection, reassembled the guns, then parked them and slapped new plastic panels on them.

    This process was repeated after WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. Some guns got reworked multiple times. Yours is exactly how a GI from any war after WW1 would have received the gun and fought with it.
     
    12Bravo20 likes this.
  12. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    10,145
    Location:
    Nostramo (in absentia), Segmentum Ultima
    Ok, zooming in I can make out the serial number, being 6 digits does indeed make it a Colt frame. That photo format always glitches out when I try to zoom in on the image......
     
    Whiskeyhotel2020 likes this.
  13. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I appreciate the information. I definitely will have to look at the markings on the frame and find out who made the frame. I definitely want to put correct wood grips on it. I will save the plastic ones and most likely will leave everything else as is. I am going to fire a magazine through it every Nov 10th.
     
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    32,974
    Location:
    Florence, Alabama
    1911 receiver, 1911A1 slide, Parkerized, plastic grips.
    No AA or other rebuild stamp that I can make out.
    An ordinary depot level refurb, a perfectly legitimate US service pistol as (re)issued, even though not factory original.

    Wood grips are not authentic to the period and a "restoration" would be like George Washington's axe, so many replacement parts required to get it to look like either a WWI Colt or a WWII Remington Rand as to destroy its historical relevance.
     
  15. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I see and agree with you. I got the frame I longed for and my own piece of history. Thank you for your posts.
     
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  16. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,419
    Location:
    Virginia
    I read the serial number to be 260687. That would make it a Colt M1911 frame. I can barely make out the Remington-Rand marking on the slide.

    I agree with the others that say to leave it alone. It's a perfectly honest WW2 rebuild of an M1911.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
    entropy and NIGHTLORD40K like this.
  17. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,768
    Looks like the 1911's we were issued out of Holder Complex in Ft. Knox in the 80's. Remember, 'if it rattles, it's a good one'!


    Larry
     
    entropy likes this.
  18. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Frame markings
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Sorry about the poor photo quality. That's an M on top a Pon the right and a G on bottom. On the top of the right hand slide rail there is what appears to be a triangle. I don't know if that helps but...
     
  20. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    32,974
    Location:
    Florence, Alabama
    Pretty sure that is an H not an M. The inspector's initial, I think there were two.
    P for proof tested, G for government contract.
     
  21. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,866
    Location:
    Missouri
    I agree with everyone else. I would leave it as is. It is an Arsenal refurb and is as issued. I carried a 1911 all the way up to late 1992. The Army finally decided to make us turn our 1911's and M3A1 SMG's in for the M9 in late 1992. I can tell you the 1911A1 served me well during Desert Storm, especially when I had had to clear bunker complexes after the cease fire.
     
    entropy likes this.
  22. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    14,973
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Another one for leaving it as is. Most of the 1911's in my Arms Room had those GI plastic grips.

    They did, and the one M1911 (not A1) in my Arms Room had them. But the plastic grips would be correct as an arsenal replacement/repair item.
     
  23. Whiskeyhotel2020

    Whiskeyhotel2020 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I will be leaving this pistol as is. I ran a couple mags through it the other day with a friend. It was a great experience to fire a working piece of history.
     
  24. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,492
    Yep, looks just like one that was issued to me.

    I’d like it back, please ;)
     
    entropy and DT Guy like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice